Black Aces On All Heart Flop

-Skeme- · #1 05-14-2005, 06:53 AM

I'm not Hero, a friend of mine is. I think preflop should be bigger raise, right? Comments on all streets please.

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed)

BB ($397.90)
UTG ($294.05)
UTG+1 ($436.10)
MP1 ($375.90)
MP2 ($232)
Hero ($1059.85)
CO ($473.45)
Button ($123.80)
SB ($396)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls $4, Hero raises to $20, CO raises to $44, 3 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $80, CO calls $36.

Flop: ($170) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $90, CO calls $90.

Turn: ($350) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $304
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creedofhubris · #2 05-14-2005, 07:04 AM

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I'm not Hero, a friend of mine is. I think preflop should be bigger raise, right? Comments on all streets please.

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Preflop bigger, yes. $120 seems good.

I like the size of the flop/turn bets; hero wants to make sure no heart falls on turn before hero pushes villain in.

boondockst · #3 05-14-2005, 10:26 AM

If Hero's going to re-reraise, why not make it larger? Unless the Hero has a very loose table image, the Villain must really like his pocket kings or maybe Ah Kh? or is it Ah Kx?

-Skeme- · #4 05-14-2005, 10:34 AM

I don't think any PP is folding for $36 more, but yeah, it's been established that raising more preflop would be the better option.

bobneptune · #5 05-14-2005, 12:20 PM

skeme,

i really don't like the way the hero plays this hand.

in super system 2, brunson make a very big point saying with AA or KK you will generally either win a little or lose a lot, especially when the nightmare flop comes as it does here.

to me, the hero's best play when the CO re-raises is to bet half your stack which puts the CO all in. this announces you have AA or KK at the worst and if the CO is awake he folds and you collect the blinds, the mp2 call and CO's raise for a nice $54 no sweat win with virtually zero risk.

by re raising to $80, you allow the CO to continue to play where you are the fav, but still have put yourself on a high pair and potentially you put half your stack at risk playing it down to the end. there is nothing better to put yourself on tilt than getting your aces cracked this way.

when the flop comes all hearts, you may virtually be drawing dead. certainly JJ is a reasonable holding for the CO which would make him trips with this flop. he could have made his plays with a high suited connector, and if its in hearts your toast. its virtually a coin flip he has at least one heart in his hand. the CO has to have you on a big pair here and his call of your $90 says he can beat your high pair and is going to try and bleed you the next 2 streets.

-Skeme- · #6 05-14-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
in super system 2, brunson make a very big point saying with AA or KK you will generally either win a little or lose a lot, especially when the nightmare flop comes as it does here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing the 30 year old B&M advice from Doyle Brunson to present day online low stakes NL games isn't good. They don't resemble eachother at all.

[ QUOTE ]
to me, the hero's best play when the CO re-raises is to bet half your stack which puts the CO all in. this announces you have AA or KK at the worst and if the CO is awake he folds and you collect the blinds

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This is not good. Severely overplaying your Aces is a great way to get 0 action. Trying to announce that you have Aces or Kings isn't good either.

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the mp2 call and CO's raise for a nice $54 no sweat win with virtually zero risk.

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The risk of killing your action isn't enough? I'm not raising $600 preflop on an $80 bet because I'm afraid of a flop.

[ QUOTE ]
by re raising to $80, you allow the CO to continue to play where you are the fav, but still have put yourself on a high pair and potentially you put half your stack at risk playing it down to the end.

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So? Given his action he would have a high pair also. A huge underdog to mine. Unless a few of the cards I'm afraid of hit the flop, I won't mind putting money in.

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there is nothing better to put yourself on tilt than getting your aces cracked this way.

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What way? Actually playing them?

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when the flop comes all hearts, you may virtually be drawing dead.

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When the flop comes 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I may "virtually be drawing dead."

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certainly JJ is a reasonable holding for the CO which would make him trips with this flop.

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I don't think Jacks are a reasonable or likely holding for Villain.

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he could have made his plays with a high suited connector, and if its in hearts your toast.

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Unlikely.

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its virtually a coin flip he has at least one heart in his hand.

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It's about 60:40. Virtually doesn't really cut it.

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his call of your $90 says he can beat your high pair and is going to try and bleed you the next 2 streets.

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No, it doesn't.

Prevaricator · #7 05-14-2005, 06:57 PM

Well you got the CO to put 1/6 of his stack in PF against your aces so never folding for the rest of the hand is okay. The raise pf though is bad IMO because the CO only has to call 36 more (so despite one sixth of his stack going in pf with the worst of it, a lot of the money is already in the pot and its only 36 more to call, he cant really fold), and the pf raise to 80 narrows your hand range significantly. So postflop aggression is okay (flop bet is not enough), but you need to put more money in preflop, or just call the CO's raise and try to trap.

-Skeme- · #8 05-14-2005, 06:58 PM

Yeah, I figured preflop raise wasn't enough and neither was flop bet.

creedofhubris · #9 05-14-2005, 10:03 PM

What's wrong with flop bet? As I said, I think hero really doesn't want to commit a large portion of his stack until he sees a non-heart turn.

Prevaricator · #10 05-15-2005, 12:43 AM

After you put a large enough portion of your stack (or your opponent's stack if you have your opponent covered hu), you are already committed because its mathematically +EV for you to see a showdown. If you're so worried about seeing the turn then why bet at all, just check the flop and maybe CR or else check fold the turn if its a heart and pot if its not; I don't see how the half bet makes sense.