Foxwoods 5-10 hand...cowboys facing heat...

chesspain · #1 08-04-2005, 07:39 PM

Foxwoods 5/10...(10/20 kill pot)

Folded to twentysomething, Lee Jonesian-like TAG in EP who raises, folded to me in MP and I three-bet with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], folded to CO who folds his kill blind, folded to Button who caps. Both blinds fold, TAG and I both call. Button is rather loose preflop but neither tricky nor overly aggressive. I would guess his stats were something like 40/7/1.5.

Flop (13.5SB) J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)

TAG checks, I bet, Button raises, TAG checkraises, I call, Button caps, TAG and I call.

Turn (12.5BB) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

TAG bets, I fold...

Too much, too little, or just right?

SippinSoma · #2 08-04-2005, 08:32 PM

I don't understand why you would call the cap and fold to a turn bet.

SmileyEH · #3 08-04-2005, 08:34 PM

Put as few bets in on the flop. Your equity is really reduced because it's monotone. Once it gets to a brick turn I'd throw a raise in. I don't want to fold this hand.

-SmileyEH

brettbrettr · #4 08-04-2005, 08:45 PM

Whats the point of calling the flop bets if you're folding to the turn bet?

chesspain · #5 08-04-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put as few bets in on the flop. Your equity is really reduced because it's monotone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? According to Two Dimes, if I'm up against hands like QQ and AK (where either player has a spade), I still have close to 50% equity.

Of course, if either player has AA or a flopped flush, I'm toasted. Then again, if I'm facing either of these hands, it's not like my equity is going to change much on the turn.

chesspain · #6 08-04-2005, 09:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the point of calling the flop bets if you're folding to the turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Each show of aggression I faced, especially given the two opponents involved, made me less happy about my hand. The Button's initial flop raise meant little to me, although the TAG's checkraise was rather alarming. I thought I could still be ahead, so I called the checkraise with the intention of raising a turn blank.

However, given that the Button capped the flop behind me, and then the not-overly-aggressive TAG bets right out again on the turn into both of us, I had to put the TAG on either a flopped flush or set of Jacks. If it were heads-up, I assume I would have just called down (or raised and folded to a three-bet). But with the Button still behind me, I couldn't take a chance on getting trapped for big bets on the turn, especially given my strong feeling that my hand was already second best with no room to improve.

chesspain · #7 08-05-2005, 09:12 AM

I wish I had gotten more replies on this hand...anyway...the Button called down the TAG.

TAG showed JJ
Button showed QQ (w/o the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])...and mentioned to me immediately after the hand was over "I didn't mean to cap the flop; [I only did it because] I thought you raised the flop."

sfer · #8 08-05-2005, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the point of calling the flop bets if you're folding to the turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a lot of information to interpret between the last flop action and the first turn action. A player got capped on a monotone flop behind Mr. Geriatric and still led the turn. There's a decent chance it gets raised behind him. And it's hard to overstate how passive the standard Foxwoods game can be.

There is something to be said about getting through the flop cheaply, particularly if the EP player is as straightfoward as you describe.

gaming_mouse · #9 08-05-2005, 11:49 AM

You can fold to the flop cap as you have, at best, one out.

Wheather or not to fold to the TAG's flop c/r is closer and more interesting...

He may be trying to isolate the button by facing you with 2 cold. Similarly, the button's intitial raise may have also been an attempt to isolate you and get a free card with AK and one [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but this is less likely (mathematically, and based on your read) than a stronger made hand like AA or JJ.

So you are hoping, specifically, that both players were either semi-bluffing or hoping to isolate you with a weaker made hand.

This multi-event parlay, combined with a monotone board that significantly reduces your equity, make folding the flop when it's 2 back to you the correct decision, IMO.