So the LAG checkraised both of us when the top card paired on the turn

chesspain · #1 06-25-2005, 07:35 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

MP2 is the same LAG from my "Blind Defense" hand from earlier today. No strong read on the CO, other than he wasn't loose and he hadn't done anything noteworthy.

Preflop: chesspain is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, chesspain raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO checks, chesspain bets, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, chesspain calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, chesspain...???

1) Folds--since the LAG (who isn't a maniac) checkraised two players, making this an unlikely bluff into a protected pot.

2) Calls down--especially since it is now heads-up, and it is foolish to do anything but get to showdown.

P.S--Does anyone prefer raising the turn the first time around, even though we might still have to face a gaybet on the river?

spamuell · #2 06-25-2005, 07:36 PM

I am certainly calling down here against a LAG HU. CO's bet-fold was surprising.

toss · #3 06-25-2005, 07:55 PM

Call down, I think a lotta LAGs and less will checkraise the turn once the board pairs.

Nick C · #4 06-25-2005, 08:00 PM

Yikes. I have a really hard time figuring out what's going on in situations like this.

But, let's see. After you just called CO, MP2 may have stopped worrying about you, thinking you may just have overs. So whatever MP2 has CO on could be the most important consideration here. Maybe he likes his worse pocket pair, and his original plan was to checkraise you on the turn, and after the bet came from CO instead, he decided to go ahead and follow-through.

I guess I'm looking for reasons to call, since that's what I want to do. I get stubborn against LAGs, sometimes.

If I did call down, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if MP2 showed me a ten (or even 55/44), though.

chesspain · #5 06-25-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But, let's see. After you just called CO, MP2 may have stopped worrying about you, thinking you may just have overs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent observation about the possiblity that MP2 may have misperceived the strength of my hand following my call on the turn.

Jake (The Snake) · #6 06-25-2005, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

P.S--Does anyone prefer raising the turn the first time around, even though we might still have to face a gaybet on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do. Seem to me like the turn card is exactly the kind of card that people like to bluff at. I know there is a hand somewhere in SSHE that addresses this. Since you raised PF, CO might think that you will fold an overpair or overcards to his donkbet fearing a 3rd Ten. Also, CO could have picked up a flush draw.

(The fact that CO folded to the raise here confirms he was bluffing in this particular case)

The way it played out, I'd call down for the same reasons others have said.

SmileyEH · #7 06-25-2005, 08:33 PM

call down!!!!!!!!!!!

-SmileyEH

mmbt0ne · #8 06-25-2005, 08:37 PM

I would usually raise the turn first time. If he still raise, folding to a check-3bet would be pretty easy on that board.

Given that you didn't raise, I definitely think you should call down. The whole reason we have reads on players is to know when to call a hand like this. Use them [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Jake (The Snake) · #9 06-25-2005, 09:49 PM

one more point, if villain did have a ten... wouldn't he c/r almost all the time?

chesspain · #10 06-25-2005, 11:52 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

MP2 is the same LAG from my "Blind Defense" hand from earlier today. No strong read on the CO, other than he wasn't loose and he hadn't done anything noteworthy.

Preflop: chesspain is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, chesspain raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO checks, chesspain bets, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, chesspain calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, chesspain calls.

River: (10.16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, chesspain calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white

MP2 shows Qs Tc, and MHING