My check-threebet runs smack into another player's check-cap...

chesspain · #1 06-21-2005, 04:10 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

The Button is a known TAG. No reads on the other two players.

Preflop: chesspain is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, chesspain calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Although I would usually cap here, I only called since I wanted to see the flop and possibly set up for a checkraise.

Flop: (13 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
chesspain checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button raises, chesspain 3-bets, MP2 caps, CO folds, Button folds, chesspain calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, MP2 bets, chesspain calls.

River: (14 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, MP2 bets, chesspain calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Too weak on the turn/river?

jay1313 · #2 06-21-2005, 04:17 PM

I would be lost here too. I misread the position, I agree with your call down line.

toss · #3 06-21-2005, 04:17 PM

I think MP2's hand capping range from most likely to least likely is: TT, AA, KK, QQ/99, and JJ.

The flop action is extremely weird and also extremely unsettling. I'd also call down.

peterchi · #4 06-21-2005, 04:22 PM

I only recently figured out what this was so correct me if I'm wrong, but is this a wa/wb? And if so, then that means this is in fact the right way to play the turn/river, right?

Because I'm putting MP2 on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT. Dang, sucky board.

And I will throw up on my feet if you tell me he had JTs.

mosta · #5 06-21-2005, 04:26 PM

I think you played it okay. he should cap pf with AA or KK. I think I lead the river. he's not expecting AA or KK b/c no one capped. he could have a set, and we're not thrilled about the J on the river, but what probably happened on the flop is he had a PP and confirmed that 3-bettor missed. then again, he does have ot give your 3-bet credit. still, he can't put you on AA or KK. I think it's close to lead the river or check-call it. JJ, TT, 77, 88 are probably more likely than QQ. so, okay, check call the river.

mosta · #6 06-21-2005, 04:29 PM

side-point: you've already got three players in the pot pf when the action gets to you. cap it up. the time to withhold the cap is with 1 or maybe 2 other players. multi-way I don't think you make up for it.

S_Perry · #7 06-21-2005, 04:29 PM

I don't like preflop. Given preflop and the flop, I like calling the flop to try to bet/3-bet the turn.

Aces McGee · #8 06-21-2005, 04:30 PM

My original thought was that because you've underrepresented your hand by not capping preflop, you need to be more aggressive later, and should therefore bet the turn. If raised, call down from there. Don't checkraise, because I don't think you want to be three-bet -- you'll still have to call down.

However, MP2 is willing to cap the flop after:

1) the CO bets into the pre-flop 3-bettor
2) the pre-flop 3-bettor raises
3) you check 3-bet

I'm beginning to give him credit for AA at minimum, with TT seeming more reasonable since he didn't cap preflop.

I hate decisions like this. If he has QQ, you scold yourself for being a wimp; if he has AA or TT, you scold yourself for spewing.

Bottom line, I think you played it fine [EDIT: postflop. I'm not thrilled about not capping preflop]. However, if you had posted it where you bet the turn, were raised, and called down from there, I probably would've said you played it fine. Conclusion: either I'm too wishy-washy, or it doesn't make a huge difference either way.

-McGee

crunchy1 · #9 06-21-2005, 04:31 PM

I think that not capping this hand PF hurt you after the flop.

krimson · #10 06-21-2005, 04:40 PM

Weird situation. Given the way MP2 plays the hand I would put him on 88-QQ. This might be a bit specific of a read but I can't think of a raising hand that would be so excited about the flop. Loose J9 steal seems a bit odd?

If he does have 88-QQ then these are all likely hands to cap the flop. Two overpair, two sets, and one second pair with straight draw.

Give then fairly equal probability of being ahead or behind I don't think calling down to the river is out of the question.

Is my read on MP2 too specific or does this seem reasonable to others?