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  #1  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:56 AM
AceHiStation AceHiStation is offline
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Default 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

Been playing a bit at the table with a fairly TAGgish image. I felt that even though I only have about a 19% chance of hitting the flush on the river, but I felt if I did hit it, I could easily get paid off bigtime by a straight/two pair/flush. Just curious to hear some thoughts on this line.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($603)
SB ($665.10)
BB ($506.05)
UTG ($223)
MP ($1725.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $6, Hero calls $6, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($24) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($24) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $15</font>, BB folds, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $55</font>, SB calls $40.

River: ($134) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero calls all-in($542)</font>, SB calls $417.

Final Pot: $1216
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

Did you really want to get paid off by a flush?
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2005, 03:19 AM
soah soah is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

I don't really understand your reasoning there... if I raise the turn, it's because I think I can pick up the pot often enough to make it +EV as a semibluff. If I'm expecting to get called then I need to make a ton of money when I hit just to make the play breakeven. And by "a lot" we're talking about overbetting the river and getting called (and winning!) near 100% of the time.

For this hand to work out as you've envisioned it, your opponent needs to stack off with some pretty sketchy holdings... what type of a guy puts $600 into a $24 pot with two pair on a coordinated board?

What sort of hand leads full pot on the river when the flush hits? What calls your raise? I expect most top pair, two pair, and sets to bet smaller on the river or just check-call. You might get lucky and catch him with a slowplayed straight, but his line seems to be representing a flush, and most flushes beat you.

Depending on your reads of your opponent this hand may not be too bad, but you didn't include any reads at all... and it feels like either this hand wasn't thought out too well, or there's a lot of information missing.
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2005, 05:25 AM
Allinlife Allinlife is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

unless villain is a total donk, I think you should just call the river bet
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2005, 07:40 AM
DonButtons DonButtons is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

acehi,

next time don't show the result that villan called your river bet, makes for better discussion.

I also like a river call, holla
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:00 AM
TheCat TheCat is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

If you simply smooth call on the turn your odds of hitting on the river are 9/37, the pot odds are 15/39 , not in your favour but not a million miles out. Given the impiled odds should you hit on the river, the probabilies alone justify a river call.
The case for a raise on the turn is far more situational. In addition I woudn't want to make a big semi-bluff bet when I might be drawing dead. At least into an unknown player I wouldn't.

Villians turn bet worries me a bit, it seems he isn't too worried by someone drawing to a flush. Did he hit a bigger flush than you?

BTW in sure your comment about getting paid off should villian hit a flush is a simple mistake.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:11 AM
Hattifnatt Hattifnatt is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

I just call the turn. if he 3-bets you gotta fold.
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:23 AM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

acehi,


turn line isn't good, you aren't disgusising your flush when it comes.

river: a call is better than a push for reasons mentioned.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:25 AM
Atropos Atropos is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

I think your river raise is nonsense. You raised overraised a turn where a gut-shot straight hit. You could easily have KQo here and your opponent must know it. Sure he could have tried to bluff you on the river, but against a bluff a reraise is totally worthless. I think you should call down and only raise with a good read. Same with your plan of "getting paid off big when"... if the opponent has the nut straight, he will reraise your turn raise. If he doesnt have it, it seems to be very difficult to get any money out of him at the river. Dont forget you have reverse implied odds here, because you will have to call down nearly any better flush at the river,and there are nearly no worse flushes possible.
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:00 AM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): Turned flush draw, disguise/build pot

no idea what you are thinking on the river here.
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