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  #1  
Old 05-19-2005, 10:39 PM
NickPoker NickPoker is offline
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Posts: 63
Default Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

Situation:
B&M $2/$5 Blinds $200 Capped Buy In
Game is playing very loose preflop, and somewhat loose post flop. It is not uncommon for 5-7 people to limp. I kept finding myself with drawing type hands with decent size pots due to the preflop action. Please advise on the 3 hands below, and how do you vary your strategy in a game like this? Do you loosen up or tighten up?

Hand 1:
10 Players
Hero in c/o if with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] with $190
Villian #1 MP has me covered (solid player)
Villian #2 on button has me covered (loose bad player)

Preflop - Villian 1 limps,. I limp, button limps, BB checks. Pot size =$20
Flop 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Villian 1 checks, Hero checks, Villian 2 bets $20, Villian 1 calls, I call.
Do anything differnt? Bring out for a raise or Reraise? When I called I mentally made the decision to raise on 4th street regardless, the button was capabale of trying steal the pot. Pot =$80
Turn: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] MP checks, I bet $60, Button Miniraises to $120, MP folds. I call. I put the villian on a 10, flush, or outside chance of a boat. I am pretty sure I need a diamond to win, and there is no chance this guy is laying down for $60 is why I didn't push the rest in.
River: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Of course I push, he turns over pocket 3's for a boat. Where do I get away from this hand?
Hand #2 (couple of orbits later)
Hero c/o if K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] with approx $170
Villian 1 MP opens for $15 (solid player), 1 person calls, I call, Villian 2 button calls, SB calls, Villian 2 BB raises Raises all in to a total of $38. Everyone calls. I am think at this point everyone has limping type hands ands got stuck in. Pot is $190.
Flop 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] MP opens for $40, I Push all in for a $110 more, to my dismay the button pushes also. MP folds. Villian 2 turns over A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], BB also has KJ. Turn and River blank. Villian 2 wins $500 pot with Ace High. Do anything differnt here?

Hand #3:
Hero again in C/O 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I have $140, everyone has me covered.
3 Limpers in front of me, I limp. Button who is a reasonably solid player raises to $15. SB calls, BB folds, limpers call, I call. Pot $80.
Flop AJ9 rainbow. It is checked to me I check, Button bets $50, SB calls. I call, I know both of these guys are not folding for an addtional $65, so I didn't see any reason to raise. Should I have folded? Pot $230
Turn is a blank, SB checks, I check button goes all in. SB calls, I call my last $65 (to win $360). Button has set of Aces, SB has top 2 AJ. River is a Jack.

Feel free to Rip me. The main reason I am posting this is because most nights that I lose is because I get myself into drawing situations and miss. In general I have reasonable odds to call, or I get caught in semi-bluff. Is this just poker, or do I need tighten up in situations similar to the above hands?
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2005, 11:38 PM
gomberg gomberg is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22
Default Re: Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

Nick, it seems that your strategy is bad for that structure in general and you will continue to not do as well in that game as you should if you play that way.

What I'm talking about is simple preflop strategy. Your stack size w/ a $200 cap is like putting handcuffs on. You cannot play speculative hands profitably w/ no implied odds or bluffing equity. You can either tighten up preflop and push your premium hands hard (all the while reloading and seeing a cheap late position speculative hand once in a while), or you can play crazy until you get lucky, bully the table, etc. so you can quickly build a decent chip stack. This may cost you 3-5 buy-ins, but is much worth it if there are other deeper stacks in the game that are weak and you're planning on staying a while.

As for the hands, I think hand 1 is a fold preflop. Once there, push hard - you don't have the stack to get away or play this passively.

Hand 2 is a clear fold with short stacks. You're dominated most of the time and if you flop a draw you'll be drawing to the non-nut flush.

Hand 3 is a marginal limp - I'd probably do that to. Of course you have to call the raise. If you looked to your left and noticed him about to raise, you should probably fold preflop.
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2005, 12:02 AM
NickPoker NickPoker is offline
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Posts: 63
Default Re: Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

I can't disagree, I generally don't get involved in this many hands like this. That was part of my problem in this particular game, I am usually not this passive, and never really got into a comfort zone. I am much more comfortable being the aggressor, and for whatever reason, I couldn't get in control of the game (probably because the game was looser than I am used to, I seem to do better against tighter solid players). My optimal game is 5-6 solid, but predictable players with a couple of action guys sprinkled in. This game was the reverse.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2005, 12:11 AM
gomberg gomberg is offline
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Default Re: Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

I know what that's like. Probably best to just tighten up then and wait till you can build a stack. I hate 2-5 w/ a $200 cap!
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2005, 06:59 AM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 35
Default Re: Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

I really can't fault any of your play here. Bad luck, my man.

The T8 turn call is marginal (you are getting 6:1 odds and need 5:1 to make the call) but slightly +EV.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2005, 10:20 AM
NickPoker NickPoker is offline
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Default Re: Drawing Hands in a very Loose Game

I agree each hand individually was probably ok. The only one I think I can really get away from is maybe hand #1 when the board pairs. I probably should have pushed all in on the flop, either before or after he raised (though I think the result would have been the same), and maybe check folded on the turn with a now non-nut draw. Overall though, do you think I should tighten up to avoid these situations, or since each of these hands were +EV I should like being in them, and accept the variance as part of the game?
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