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#11
11-11-2005, 05:04 PM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
I don't have my copy with me, but I think this play is discussed in HE4AP, possibly under slowplaying. The goal is to mimic a big hand, maybe a set of 4s that was afraid of check-raising and facing the field with 2 cold. You need the other players to fold, but they hopefully will on this flop. I think the play continues by leading out on the turn. I'll check my copy when I get home, or someone else can.
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#12
11-11-2005, 05:08 PM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
lapse in judgment. A raise looks clearly better than a call to me.
If you are trying to setup a big bluff on the turn, then ok, every once in a while perhaps it's not terrible. I like the straightforward raise to isolate because you have the best hand or fold because you don't. -eric
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#15
11-11-2005, 08:46 PM
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My thoughts
This was a 10 handed 100/200 game and the 'expert' is a known 2+2er who has sat with over 100K on the table and seems to be a winning player. his numbers are something like 18/13/2.3
He clearly froze up on the flop. He didn't have the courage to bet out and then failed to fold which was the best option when it comes back to him bet having players to act after him or check raise which is second best. This may have been a result of multi-tabling and just auto checking the flop when he didn't hit his set multi-way. I believe it is clear that the proper play here given that he called pre flop is to lead out on the flop with a bet. I think this flop play is a pretty bad mistake and i was very surprised to see it. I've seen him go overboard with action on the turn but that can be explained away by shania. However, as someone mentioned we all play our C game from time to time.
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#16
11-11-2005, 08:54 PM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
[ QUOTE ]
expert is in is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG calls, a tough player raises, expert calls and big blind calls. Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Expert checks, BB checks, UTG checks, tough player bets, expert calls... is this call an expert play or lapse in judgement? [/ QUOTE ] Misplayed preflop, misplayed flop...unless you open fold here I think you misplayed the turn. HU is whole different story, but against a tough player with people yet to act this is a sucker play. Playing this from the small blind is retarded. Big time leak. I'm not trying to be rude - although I do try that sometimes - but this is simple stuff. I gues the only question after the preflop error should be "Do I lead this flop?" Check calling not an option.
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#18
11-12-2005, 01:12 AM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
[ QUOTE ]
It could be a good play if he made it to check-raise the turn to make the tough guy fold, knowing that the chance the tough guy would fold is hight enough to make the play worth it. Soh [/ QUOTE ] Tough players aren't usually just folding like girls to the turn checkraise.
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#19
11-12-2005, 02:10 AM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
[ QUOTE ]
folding >> raising >>>>>>>>> calling here, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I'd usually agree, but in high, aggressive games I think the right play is often to call this with stuff like 55 or a 9, and raise it up if you have AK or a set or even a flush draw. It depends on whether or not your opponents respect you or not though. If they don't then I like raising or folding this better.
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#20
11-12-2005, 02:22 AM
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Re: expert play or lapse in judgement?
I disagree with you all who think that this has been horribly played.
First, the pre-flop call is a no-brainer. He's small blind with two players already in, maybe three if BB calls. He certainly has the odds to try to hit a set. Small pairs are much more playable than most people realize since they are easy to play post-flop. And the call on the flop isn't all that bad either. One, the raiser will bet even with a hand like AQ. His 55 may be best. And if it is AND his opponent(s) make a mistake of checking the turn, he may be able to win the pot. add to that the small chance he may hit a set on the turn. Given the $ already in the pot, it is not at all unreasonable to throw in one more small bet just in case. The only reasonable argument against that call is that there are two players behind him to act. This would push the flop call to -EV, but I don't think by much. In fact, I would argue that if you automatically play contrary to this all the time (auto-folding SB in this situation or auto folding on the flop without thinking thru the possibilities), you are giving up significant profit potential (though it will help to reduce your variance). (and it seems to me that the best high limit players don't shy away from the high-variance but profitable (even if marginally so) plays.)
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