Abraham and a morality poll

[DougShrapnel]

From faith based ethic perspective shouldn’t Abraham’s correct response to God when he said, -Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah, and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.-, I will not kill my son, not because I lack faith in you God but it is because I have faith in you. You who commanded “Thou shall not kill.”?

It is not that I wish to debate the rightness of God, nor to debate the power of faith. But I wish to discuss the ethical exceptions to the immorality of murder.

Some have often argued that without God and His punishment there is no reason to not to commit murder. This argument is not one of reason, as much the argument, without God man can understand nothing, is not of reason. There is no need to appeal to higher being. I would argue that man can know the correctness of his actions by reason and his understanding of the world. But since many believe it I will include it in the poll.

Self defense – It appears that murder in the act of self defense is accepted as moral by society. If we are to say that murder is ok in self defense, then we are stating that not only is the self defense murder moral, but so is the murder of the attacker. What we have here is two party’s agreeing to battle then neither one can be said to be immoral. The agreement is only concessionary but it does exist. It is of this consequence that I would argue against the morality of murder in self defense. It is only acts of self defense that indirectly murder that are moral. Acts of self defense should be limited to non murderous objectives.

Times of war – This both extends upon and exceeds the self defense argument.

The execution of Justice – Including but not limited to capital punishment.

Participant agreement (e.g. driving a car) – This is better described as when people knowingly participate in an activity that will lead to the death of some of its practitioners. Perhaps the Amish are correct in this regard.

Ending of suffering - This includes euthenasia, as well as some arguements for the death penalty.

[sexdrugsmoney]

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From faith based ethic perspective shouldn’t Abraham’s correct response to God when he said, -Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah, and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.-, I will not kill my son, not because I lack faith in you God but it is because I have faith in you. You who commanded “Thou shall not kill.”?


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Sorry my friend, "thou shalt not kill" is given to Moses after he frees the children of Israel from the clutches of Pharoah. (Fast forward a few generations)

[DougShrapnel]

Wait are you saying abraham wasn't omniscient. I'll have to double check that.

[craig r]

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Ah, Abraham, Moses, then Jesus. I'll try to be more correct next time.

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No wonder nobody thinks I am serious when I tell them that I don't believe Moses is the Son of God.

craig

[sexdrugsmoney]

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Wait are you saying abraham wasn't omniscient. I'll have to double check that.

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Abraham was human, and humans are definately not omniscient.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wait are you saying abraham wasn't omniscient. I'll have to double check that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Abraham was human, and humans are definately not omniscient.

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My response was only meant for comedic value. I was embaressed by my oversight.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I will not kill my son, not because I lack faith in you God but it is because I have faith in you. You who commanded “Thou shall not kill.”?

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to worry about Abraham. Just change it to:

... I have faith in you. You who made me to know that 'It is wrong to kill my son'

[Edit: I think I may mean ' no need to worry about moses [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]]

chez

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, Abraham, Moses, then Jesus. I'll try to be more correct next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No wonder nobody thinks I am serious when I tell them that I don't believe Moses is the Son of God.

craig

[/ QUOTE ] When will people learn?

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will not kill my son, not because I lack faith in you God but it is because I have faith in you. You who commanded “Thou shall not kill.”?

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to worry about Abraham. Just change it to:

... I have faith in you. You who made me to know that 'It is wrong to kill my son'

chez

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks, It's to late to edit.

[Jim T]

"If we are to say that murder is ok in self defense, then we are stating that not only is the self defense murder moral, but so is the murder of the attacker. "

Killing someone in self-defense is not murder.

With limited exceptions, killing an enemy soldier in time of war is not murder either.