Random thoughts about going super pro (long)

[blufish]

USC nailed it squarely on the nose with his post. I'd definitely take his advice.

[BPA234]

Based on your post, I think this decision is one that can be be partly reached through a straight forward financial model. The balance I think has to be reconciled with the quality of life issues relative to teaching at the university level, loss of tenure or years towards tenure, and other factors that are the result of your present set-up.

BTW, I am fairly certain that university professor ranks at the top of the best jobs list for compensation and quality of life. I would need to consider that reality when compared to the quality of life of a full-time poker pro.

Finacially, I think you have to consider the following: annual living expenses, retirement and insurance investments, (health insurance(more than major medical) for a family can run you 1-2,000.00 per month), anticipated tournament/travel expenses for a reasonable period of time based on past cash record plus plus any other expenses equalls X.

Cash on hand, not counting bankroll has to be able to handle that expense load for a period of time that roughly correlates to your negative variance history ( with an added cushion built in).

Poker bankroll has to be of sufficient size to handle, what I would expect to be an increase of tourney buy-in cost and frequency.

IMO, very tough decision for you. I would consider sitting down with a finacial advisor to capture all the relevant financial issues.

I sincerely hope you reach the best decision for you and continue to do well with whatever you decide to pursue.

Thanks for all your solid 2+2 posts and good luck.

Brian

[fnurt]

I would think about taking a year's sabbatical as a trial run, if the option is open to you.

[Che]

Poker was my primary income in 2004 and is my only income this calendar year. I finished my MBA in May of this year plus I was self-studying for the CFA exams, so I haven't been spending all my time on poker, but I quit my graduate assistantship last May (2004) so I could spend the 20 hours a week I was working more productively. I have allocated most of the extra time to my family with some extra time going to poker.

I currently play ~25 hours per week on average. I have not been wildly successful, but I have been able to pay my bills (family of 4).

Feedback from a semi-pro on some of the comments in this thread:

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I have an appointment next week with the head of the Math Department at UTEP

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Aren't professors on one year contracts? I know it is a lengthy process to hire a professor (second hand knowledge - my Dad is a university chancellor and former dean), so I'm afraid that quiting with such late notice could generate ill will that will negatively impact future employment in the field (if you need it).

Unless you *know* that UTEP has the flexibility to replace you easily AND that your relationship with the administration will not be damaged by your move, I would stay on for another year (or at least a semester, if they're OK with that). I doubt either condition will be true, much less both. Thus, I would let the administration know that you are considering this move in the future, but I would not make it now.

Edit: I only say the above because of the unique aspects of your current field. If you had a "normal" job, I would recommend that you give your two weeks notice today and take your shot at being a super pro ASAP.

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But then, your contribution to society is way more important teaching than playing poker.

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IMHO I can contribute a lot more to society through giving both my money and my time if I become a multi-millionaire poker player than most people contribute by getting a job and working hard for 30-50 years.

(Notice that I said "most people" - I'm not saying pokers riches are the pinnacle of self-actualization.)

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In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player

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I believe you are correct about this.

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I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor

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Lots of things that we do impact our kids' lives. One important thing, if not the most important, is how much time we spend with them.

Another important thing is the example we set for them. I believe that a child's image of God is determined to a large extent by her image of her earthly father, so it is important to me that my kids have respect for me. Respect is earned through proper actions and making good choices consistently. While young children, and even teenagers, may not appreciate the decisions we make immediately, I believe my kids will appreciate the way I have prioritized my life when they get older.

These are my plans:

Play poker if it allows me to optimize the $ earned/time spent with family balancing act. Get a job and supplement my income with poker $ if necessary. Otherwise, keep poker as a hobby if I choose, but decrease my hours significantly if having a job provides better $ earned/time with family results.

A key to this is thinking long-term. If I get a job (and I almost got one last week - I'm casually job hunting while being VERY picky), I will definitely take a pay cut to do so on an hourly rate basis. However, I think that there is a good chance that the long run income will be much better in a job, so I'm willing to go that route if I don't make a huge poker score before I find a job on my A-list.

Conclusion:

I know my situation is different from yours (quitting a job is a little different from not aggressively seeking a job), but I hope I have provided some food for thought that will help you make a wise decision.

Good luck on whatever path you choose.

Later,
Che

[z32fanatic]

I'm not sure about how easy it is to get the same job at UTEP that you have now, but if you think you could easily return, you should definitely take a year or two off and try it. You are probably one of the best, if not the best, tourney player on this site so if anyone could do it, it's you. I say try it and if it doesn't go as well as you thought it would, you can just go back to your job as a professor. You have a chance to have your dream job, and you will almost certainly succeed at a greater rate than your other job. Also, if you're selling pieces of your WPT tourneys, make a post on here and you'll have 100 backers in an hour. Good luck and keep the excellent tourney posts coming.

[Atropos]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />

In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player, but I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I can comment on this point fairly well, since my father is a University professor. However I'm from Germany and it is possible that professors here and in the USA seem to be quite different (12 hours a week? Never saw my father work less than 100 hours a week, do you do any scientifical research?)

In Germany the respect for professors is very high, they are considered the mental elite of the country. Very often in my life when someone asked me what profession my father has, and I told them, many said "OMG [censored] WTF A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR"

And you may not forget that their is the process of "stigmatism" (sry, english is obviously not my natural language). It basically means, that if you know someones social background you always have some prejudices about someone of that background too. You then will automatically check his behaviour if it is according to your prejudices...

This can be a bad thing and is one of the reason why minorities like immigrants often have it very hard. It can be a positive effect too: I'm sure that all my life I have been given more credit for my modest mental capabilities than I deserve, just because of my father. And there is also something like an aura of expectation: If the teacher makes you feel he totally expects you to fail the class, if you dont have any intrinsic motivation to show him otherwise you will fail.
If however you have the feeling that everybody respects you and expects you to be smart, you will try your best to live up to their expectations or to the honour of your familiy. At least that's what I did all my life.

All in all I can say that I have always been proud to live in a familiy where my father was a professor, and my mother doctor for medicin. I cant explain why since obviously they reached everything by their own force and I didnt contribute anything to it. It's just a personal experience.

HOWEVER I think I have to write the other side of the medal too. You mentioned you would possibly have more time for your kids, which is certainly a good thing. My father nearly never has any time for me, since he dedicated all his life and capabilities to the science. It possible would have been better for me if he didnt, but worse for the world in general. But possibly this doesnt apply to you being a professor that much if you only work 12 hours a week anyway...

[Degen]

gl w/ whichever way you go

dunno if you've seen but i've put my company on hold and 'gone pro' full time (though it appears on a much smaller scale than you), so i'll give you my two cents.

i don't have 1/10th the responsibility you do so going broke isn't really a major concern of mine (other than the fact that it would suck)...though one thing i can tell you as that playing everyday is not a lot of fun after awhile. maybe traveling the tourney circuit is, i imagine thats a blast, but if you are going to play mostly online...that gets to be a grind real quick. i'm like three weeks in and i can already testify fully to that.

i was a lot like you before i did this...i had a day job (my company) that i didn't put a lot of time into, and spent much more time on poker, and by most accounts was probably some form of a 'pro' then...but to me it didn't feel that way, it was just a profitable hobby that i put a whole lot of time into...the key difference from this and doing it full time is that I ALWAYS LOOKED FORWARD to playing poker before...i never played if i didn't want to, and when i lost, i didn't dwell on it. Now i play whether i have the urge or not, and as with anything in life if there is no anticipation and doubt (as in waiting to play after work or thinking you may not get to play) then it is just not going to be as attractive to do it after awhile, basic human psychology.

So ya, take this with a grain of salt cuz i'm 24 and have no family and have only been at it three weeks...but that'd be my two cents.


Best of luck.


Bill

[tom441lbk]

good luck with whatever you decide to go with david!

I'm leaning towards the decision of taking a year off or so,
and evaluating it, don't professors have the option of taking a year or so off, i can't remember what its called, but i some professor friends, and i think one of them did this.

Good Luck in your Quest

-Tom

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
However I'm from Germany and it is possible that professors here and in the USA seem to be quite different (12 hours a week? Never saw my father work less than 100 hours a week, do you do any scientifical research?)

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Most university professors (at least at the larger universities, I'm sure it's different at community colleges and the like) are much closer to your experience than to sirio's, though 100 hour weeks are definitely still atypical. sirio's position, I believe, is as a lecturer, meaning that he is employed to do nothing but teach, so no, I don't think he's doing any research.

[Isura]

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Professionally, I have developed successful carrers teaching and playing poker, but it is clear than I'm closer to a world class status playing poker than teaching. But then, your contribution to society is way more important teaching than playing poker.

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I think you underestimate your importance and influence in the lives of young people. Outside my parents (and my mother is a teacher), teachers (particularily mathematics teachers) have been my biggest role model growing up. If you are not getting a job satisfaction currently, perhaps you could apply for a different position. Something like teaching gifted high school students or more advanced undergrad courses, where the students actually want to be there.

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Family: I have a very supportive wife, and she's ok if I decide to leave the teaching job and just play poker; some things are going to be difficult if I decide to travel the tournament circuit but we can work them on. In the present I have 2 sons, 2 years and 4 months old. I feel that I can spend more time with them as a poker player, but I don't know what is going to be the impact in their lifes for them to have a father that is a poker pro, or a father that is an University professor.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you plan to play on the live tourney circuit, that is going to have a significant impact on the time you have with your family. On the other hand, if your wife doesn't have work commitments, since your children are still not in school, it might be possible to travel with them. Also, having more time to spend with the kids at home will mean that you have more opportunity to take an active role in their education. More time to read with them, take them to museums, etc. I think this may outway the role model status of being a professor.

Just a few thoughts, gl with your decision.