Stats 5/10 and 10/20

[pfkaok]

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I'll post my stats here as I've reached 50K hands at 10-20. I wouldn't dare risk starting a new thread with that in case Naphand wakes up feeling grumpy as he did yesterday

10/20
Hands 50,041
VP$IP 26.33
VP$IP SB 40.08
Saw Flop all hands 32.43
Saw Flop not a blind 19.92
Folded SB to steal 83.56
Folded BB to steal 48.07
Folded BB to steal HU 39.85
Att to steal blinds 33.57
Won $ when saw flop 40.05
BB/100 4.10
Went to showdown 36.31
Won $ at SD 53.73
Raised preflop 16.94
Folded to river bet 35.58
Check raise 2.03

Aggression factors
Preflop 1.4
Flop 2.63
Turn 2.41
River 1.53
Overall 1.89


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Hey... do you coldcall a lot of PFRs, or just openlimp a decent amount in the 10/20 game?? My VPIP dropped some from 5/10, and I think its mostly b/c there is so much more raising PF at 10/20, so I have to muck many hands on CO and button that I could limp in 5/10.

Also, I have about the same 3betting standards, which I should probably adjust since there is much looser raising by some players at 10/20. What hands are you 3betting an UTG or MP raiser with? Also, what hands are you defending your BB with to have such a low Fold BB2 steal %??

[Gazza]

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Hey... do you coldcall a lot of PFRs, or just openlimp a decent amount in the 10/20 game?? My VPIP dropped some from 5/10, and I think its mostly b/c there is so much more raising PF at 10/20, so I have to muck many hands on CO and button that I could limp in 5/10.

Also, I have about the same 3betting standards, which I should probably adjust since there is much looser raising by some players at 10/20. What hands are you 3betting an UTG or MP raiser with? Also, what hands are you defending your BB with to have such a low Fold BB2 steal %??

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I virtually never coldcall or open limp. I usually raise when I come in after limpers but if the table is passive then I may limp after limpers with hands I would throw away at a more aggro table.With calling stations or maniacs sitting over me I may also adjust my strategy.
The only place I limp regularly from is the SB.

My 3 beting standards - well it's totally player and game dependant. AJ and medium PP's is probably where it gets borderline for an unknown UTG raiser.

I'll defend the BB if it's going to be heads up against a possible steal raise with a lot of junk. I like the pot odds here but I quickly fold my hand if I miss the flop. I don't usually bother trying to steal on the flop if I've defended with a heap of xxxx but CR a lot if I get a little bit of it and think I may be ahead. Sometimes I end up looking stupid against a big hand but...what can you do.
If it's going to be 3 handed or the raise comes from early position I tighten up considerably. 4 handed then I start adding in hands that can win a big pot (e.g.J6s and 87o etc)

Gazza

[MicroBob]

Bumping this thread to thank those who participated in it.
Someone sent me a PM directing me to it and I thought it was a really good discussion.

Going through yet another one of those 100BB down-swings against total donkeys and this thread gave me some really good ideas on what I might want to consider adjusting in my game.

[goodguy_1]

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Won $ when saw flop 40.05 %


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Is this number high?you only have 50K hands..you might be running good eh?

What is the accepted "norm" for Won$when saw flop for an aggresive winning 6MAX player???

[Gazza]

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Won $ when saw flop 40.05 %



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Is this number high?you only have 50K hands..you might be running good eh?

What is the accepted "norm" for Won$when saw flop for an aggresive winning 6 max player

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I think this number is right at the top range of what is possible. I seem to remember Strip or someone saying a while back that he would be amazed if anyone could sustain a win rate over 40.
All I can say is that I push a lot of marginal hands very hard and don't fold easily when I feel I have a chance. I win a lot of small pots on the flop because people don't want to go to war with me. When I'm up against players with a similar style to mine I don't mess with them either. It's easier to give up the little pots.

Running good. Maybe, Long may it continue. It's got even better since these stats were posted.

Gazza

[srw5n]

Guido-
Without having seen you play there are a couple of things I note that look like potential issues to me:

1. Folded to river bet 45.16 and Folded to river bet 44.41

I don't see how your are getting to the river and folding this often. Particularly with your aggression factors, which tell me your betting and raising the whole way then you fold about half the time? With the size of the pots generated I can't see how folding this often is correct.
2. If you're raising the whole way calling a large pot with A high is often correct.

2. VP$IP 20.58 and VP$IP 18.66 - assuming your games at times fall to 4 handed I think you're late position play is too tight. Even without that assumption these numbers lead me to believe you're CO and Button play is too tight. I'd look at your position stats. Your VPIP on the button and in the cutoff should be higher than other positions. In a six handed game an A-9 or A-8 in CO becomes a strong hand. From you're posts I know you recognize this, but I'd examine your game to see if you're loosening up in late position here.

3. Folded BB to steal HU 68.59 - I think you're 10/20 number is more representative of where you should be. I defend more HU, but perhaps I'm overly aggressive here.

[spider]

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I think this number is right at the top range of what is possible. I seem to remember Strip or someone saying a while back that he would be amazed if anyone could sustain a win rate over 40.

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I missed this thread the first time around, and am glad it got bumped. Thanks to all who contributed, lots of great insights here. Gazza, especially, has some great posts here.


Re winrate: IIRC, the uber-LAGs here (nate, strip, and/or schneids) have talked about a consistent rate of 42% at 10/20, but only b/c they are so aggressive.

I'm still at the point of doing a lot of tinkering with my game, and I've realized that the W$WSF is extremely sensitive to how aggressive you are, your opponents are, and how many people are seeing the flop. It's also not weighted to big pots, so can be really misleading if you win big/lose small or vice versa.

I guess that's really just a long and non-informative way of saying that this number can be extremely misleading, and probably should be ignored to a large extent. Or at least, for myself, I don't think I can interpret this number well enough to make use of it.


Re the A high stuff: After raising pre-flop, getting HU with the BB, and him calling a flop bet I often take the following line:
1) with K high, bet turn, intending to check/fold river
2) with A high, check turn, intending to check/call river

Opponent specific, of course, but often the best line against opponents highly inclined to bluff the river anytime you check behind on turn. Or opponents who will call flop with any pair and call it down the whole way, but won't bet river even after you check turn. Both of these types are fairly common at 5/10 IMO.


Re fold to river bet: I'm at 30%, anybody lower? I think I need to bring this up, but not by much.