Toyota: "No Financial Justification in US for Buying Hybrids"

[wacki]

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The whole point of the OP was that in the US, because gas prices are still fairly low, people who buy hybrids have motives other than financial ones. What is SO hard to comprehend about that?

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I think we are having extreme communication problems.

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Wacki, if you want to talk about other energy sources, why not start a thread about that instead of attacking me for my personal choice in cars.

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1) I never attacked your choice in car.
2) In my first post I quoted this:

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part of that enjoyment being the knowledge that she is being socially responsible

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That is what I was attacking. I'm simply pointing out that hybrids will cause more damage than gas guzzling muscle cars thanks to shale oil. And if everyone switches to hybrids we are far less likely to allocate money into alternative research and far more likely to use more and more shale oil. You need to be aware of that. The process is already happening as research into good technologies is being passed over for technologies that will most likely profit the oil companies.

If your motives are to be socially responsible then you need to read up on the current energy/global warming situation more.

I don't car if you drive a Hummer to work. It's your choice. I'm just correcting a thought process. That being said I'm glad you bought a hybrid because it does send a message to our congressmen, even if it's misplaced.

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Wacki, if you want to talk about other energy sources, why not start a thread about that instead of attacking me for my personal choice in cars.

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Feel free to search the archives. Zeno, nicky g, many others and I have covered this in extreme depth. You can watch the video or read the pdf from smalleys website which is an excellent primer.

http://cohesion.rice.edu/NaturalScie...S%20Boston.pdf
http://smalley.rice.edu/

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part of that enjoyment being the knowledge that she is being socially responsible

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That is what I was attacking. I'm simply pointing out that hybrids will cause more damage than gas guzzling muscle cars thanks to shale oil. And if everyone switches to hybrids we are far less likely to allocate money into alternative research and far more likely to use more and more shale oil. You need to be aware of that. The process is already happening as research into good technologies is being passed over for technologies that will most likely profit the oil companies.

If your motives are to be socially responsible then you need to read up on the current energy/global warming situation more.

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Yes, we are having serious communication problems because I just pointed out in my last post that
1. I do not get enjoyment from the "social responsibility" of my car
and
2. I don't consider my car to be socially responsible.

I think socally responsible transportation is mass transit, bicycles, walking.

If anything, my car eases some of my guilt from my ingrained American consumerism, but it's hybrid status certainly doesn't bring me any enjoyment on it's own. The enjoyment I get from my car is how cool it looks, how fun it is to drive, the attention I get...

Second, please don't insult me by telling me you are "correctinng my thought process" when you obviously do not even understand my thought process.

Third, the world is not going to change overnight. Everyone is not going to go out and buy hybrids. That's simply not a possibility.

You're making that same silly argument that some zealous carnivores make about "what if everyone suddenly became vegetarian? Then we'd have a huge problem of too many cows and all their methane and all their grazing causing erosion.. blah blah blah..." It's not a good argument because it ain't going to happen.

Public opinion does not change quickly and drastically.

Hybrids are easing the American people into electric vehicles. Is that a bad thing?

No, hybrids are not a permanent solution. Who is arguing that they are?

[wacki]

You:

Second, please don't insult me by telling me you are "correctinng my thought process" when you obviously do not even understand my thought process.


me

I'm just correcting a thought process.

Did i say it was "your" thought process? I quoted ed miller. Even if I did correct your thought process, I don't see how it would be an insult. People make mistakes all the time. I can't expect you to know everything. I sure don't.


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Third, the world is not going to change overnight. Everyone is not going to go out and buy hybrids. That's simply not a possibility.

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Even if they did I wouldn't care. That's not really relevant to my arguement. My arguement is that people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid are misleading themselves.

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You're making that same silly argument that some zealous carnivores make about "what if everyone suddenly became vegetarian? Then we'd have a huge problem of too many cows and all their methane and all their grazing causing erosion.. blah blah blah..." It's not a good argument because it ain't going to happen.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Not going to touch this one.

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I think socally responsible transportation is mass transit, bicycles, walking.

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Good for you. However, I am not that extreme. I prefer the cheap and clean energy route. That way our lifestyles won't change, people can still drive SUV's, Florida will be less likely to end up under the sea, and Europe will be less likely to freeze over.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8398

Of course none of this will happen unless smalley's program get's put in gear. A program which has many opponents despite it's rather cheap cost.

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Hybrids are easing the American people into electric vehicles. Is that a bad thing?

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Did I say hybrids are bad? No. Again, I said people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid need to have their thought process corrected. This may or may not include you.

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My arguement is that people who claim they are socially responsible because they have a hybrid are misleading themselves.

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Your argument has nothing to do with the original post.

Why don't you start your own thread about what you want to talk about? And maybe you could lay out your points in detail and clarify your ideas rather than attack people.

[sirio11]

I really love my Prius, and I already knew about the fueling costs vs the cost of the car when I bought it. But it's just a wonderful car.

[InchoateHand]

And then the obvious factor that purchasing these cars builds the market for them with possibly very beneficial long-term benefits...oh nevermind, you DON"T SAVE GAS OVER THE NEXT THREEE YEARS HAHA YOU ARE STUPID GO BUY A HUMMER LOLOL!!!I AM A CONVERSATIVE

[wacki]

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Your argument has nothing to do with the original post.


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I didn't respond to the OP. I responded to Ed miller.

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Why don't you start your own thread about what you want to talk about? And maybe you could lay out your points in detail and clarify your ideas rather than attack people.

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You've asked me this before, I said I already had.

I've never attacked you. I've only attacked an idea. An idea Ed Miller origally put forward. That's what we do on discussion boards, we discuss things.

No need to be so condescending.

OK, let's start over. I will start you a new thread and you can tell me all about your ITER and such because I'm completely confused.

You seem to be saying people are being irresponsible by buying hybrids. I think when you're talking about ITER you're talking about new ways to create energy and I think you mean you'd like people to use that energy in their cars rather than oil. If I understand you correctly, then you'd prefer to see electric cars rather than gasoline fueled cars. Am I correct on this?

If so, I simply don't understand why you'd be so against hybrids. Americans are NOT ready for electric cars and hybrids ease them into the transition. Besides, they're fun, cool cars that don't get stolen as much, are allowed to drive in carpool lanes, have auto-start, etc.

Stop hating, Wacki.
Now go to your new thread .

[mojobluesman]

"If you pollute the air three times more than I do, you should shoulder three times the cleanup costs. Or if the air can't be cleaned, then you compensate people for their dirty windows, soot-clogged machinery, respiratory problems, etc."

That's a nice idea in theory, but if you charged a polluter through taxation and regulation, they would simply pass the cost on to customers to keep margins and return on invested capital exactly the same.

[mojobluesman]

By the way, if you put government in charge of policy related to which vehicles get taxed and which get tax breaks you virtually guarantee a process where politics and incompetency trump the outcome you are hoping for.

In these matters it is important to understand that a worthy goal and government action rarely produces the desired result. It usually produces a bigger but different mess.