Discipline - Please Help

DalaiLama · #1 11-18-2004, 11:41 AM

I have poor discipline when it comes to poker. I play solid poker, but I have a problem when it comes to bank roll management and game selection. Some people can set a goal and play 500 s&gs at the same level. I bounce around and move up depending on confidence and short term results. I can beat the mid and lower games, but I cant resist the urge to move up and gamble a bit. Any suggestions?

kalooki45 · #2 11-18-2004, 11:45 AM

sounds to me like you're having fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
unless you're doing in the rent, or trying to be a professional, isn't that the real point of playing?

IlliniRyRy · #3 11-18-2004, 01:51 PM

Do whatever you want but understand that there is a TON of luck involved, so if you bust out of a big game, then you better not have a problem with grinding it back up at a lower level. Winning poker is a grind, if you don't have the discipline to stick to your own level, chances are you're probably not going to have enough discipline when you're playing.

Blarg · #4 11-18-2004, 10:41 PM

Yeah, just be sure what your goals are. Nothing wrong with having fun, but bouncing all over the place makes it really hard to judge how good you really are. You could get the wrong idea and overestimate yourself when you're running good, and then if you start to go on a bad streak, not know any better and keep pushing at the higher games.

Poker really is a grind, I think. One nice thing about being bored grinding the same games at the same limits, though, is that if you do it for a very long time, you know where you really stand in the game eventually, and what bounds not to stray too far from. Bouncing all over, you could play for years and never really know how good you are or why you are winning or losing.

paland · #5 11-19-2004, 01:44 AM

I'm glad to hear that. I know that I am not the best player and don't try to be. I play in MMT's and usually play too loose (and a bit aggressive). But my style does win a decent amount of tournaments. I figure that If I make only a small profit, then that is fine as one of my primary reasons to play are escape from the work and the world. I play tourneys after work to get away from it all. Playing is theraputic for me.

I know that I am usually in too many pots pre-flop but I enjoy the action and my post flop play makes up for the bad pre-flop calls. I know that I could to better if I played a bit tighter. But I am not here to play professionally and I don't play in tourneys that I can't afford. I like large tourneys (400+) and, through it all, many times I go deep into tournaments and have quite a few final tables to my credit as well as 14 wins in large MTT's.

Al_Capone_Junior · #6 11-19-2004, 02:22 AM

Well, I am both the very best and the very worst at the aspects of poker related to discipline.

Some things I am fantastic at. Those are mostly esoteric and theoretical, thus are not going to be of much use to you. For instance, if we were going to play craps (not that I do, just an example) I wouldn't care if we played pass or don't pass. The percentages are identical. If you offered me exactly 4.1:1 on a flush draw with one card to come and no implied odds, I might either call or fold, depending on my mood. Of course I would know it makes absolutely no difference in the universe. I also am pretty darn good at calculating in my head the theoretical implied odds when calling preflop bets in no limit.

However, when it comes to things like bankroll management, I have a history of NOT being very good at it. This is a bit odd, because I am 100% efficient at telling YOU precisely what the correct and reasonable bankroll requirements are. But then you should do as I SAY, not as I DO. Despite my "advanced knowledge of bankroll concepts," I have been fairly poor at applying them to my own play, and have from time to time gone bust because of it. Most of us on these forums can say the same thing, I am certainly not the only one.

You should however follow at least a GENERAL plan for bankroll management, and NOT go over-budget. Every time I decide NOT to take a shot at that higher limit game (that I know I don't have the bankroll for) I wind up feeling good about it later. Lately I have been playing exclusively the $100 buy-in no limit games. I KNOW I have more than enough money for these games. I beat them quite consistently. Sure, I could take on a session of a $500 game over at the palms, but my discipline has been good lately, and I am staying where I am at. Much of my bankroll has been spent lately on other things, and several losses in a row at $500 no limit would really F#$% things up for me. But I have PLENTY of money for $100 no limit, and what the hey, I am beating up on it quite consistently.

Let me tell you this too... *I* am in a MUCH better situation to "take a shot" right now than someone (perhaps like you) who is relying on their poker income to make the rent. The thing is, I am working, and doing quite well. Should I take a shot and lose, I will get paid again very soon. If you take these shots with a non-replaceable bankroll, you wind up screwed. You'll lose so much that you will be forced to drop down to lower stakes, with smaller win rates, and larger standard deviations from all the super-loose players. No, if you are comfortable playing 6-12, DON'T take a shot at 20-40 or even 15-30. STAY at your 6-12. Take the OCCASIONAL shot at 8-16. Leave the middle limit red chip games ALONE.

Trust me on this, I have gone bust several times over the years, I DO know from experience. Just because I often can't listen to my own advice doesn't mean that I am not right. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al

Al_Capone_Junior · #7 11-19-2004, 02:37 AM

al

DalaiLama · #8 11-22-2004, 11:54 AM

al, I don't rely on poker for income. I have a professional job. I could've written your first post word for word. Seems we have many of the same positives and negatives. I've gotten better at walking away after several bad beats, whereas in the past I would press to try and make it up. I've improved all aspects of my game for that matter over the past several years. I just want to get rid of that "Ok one more big score at this level and I swear I'm dropping back down" mentality. It's a gamblers mentality I suppose. Basically you're lying to yourself much like a drug addict or any other addict for that matter, whether it be sex, drugs, or gambling. Thoughts?