SSH Starting Hands Chart -- Limping in with A2s in EP

I'm a tight player and in EP I usually don't limp in with less than ATs, however I'm confused that SSH advocates limping in with A2s. Are we playing this mainly for flush/straight value? Since a majority of the time an Ace hit the boards you will be outkicked or worse.

So how would we play this when we hit the ace? What do we do when we hit the ace with a flush draw NOT of our suit is on the board. (Assume there are 3-4 other players in the hand and 2 of them are rocks while the other two are calling stations.)

I play A-2s only from the Button.
When hit the Ace bet or sometimes rise for information,
but sometimes check...

a. in a very loose passive table, this makes for a good multiway hand. We expect the pot will be not raised and people will be coming in with lots of junk hands, sooted crap, etc. As such, there is good equity in limping. We're playing it mostly for the flush draw value. It is 7.5:1 of flopping 2 or more of the suit.

b. if we flop top pair crap-kicker, we have outs to two pair (see hidden outs on SSHE), and we may have the best hand. again, the pot will be biggish with all those loose players playing crappy hands.

c. if we flop top pair with 2-flush board, we have to be pretty careful about continuing. This is like a check & evaluate the action.

d. taking a hand like this still depends on a lot like the board texture, the opposition, the post-flop action, etc etc.

[Claunchy]

Will,

I would always play Axs from any position if the game is sufficiently loose and passive. If there are a lot of preflop raises, or if there are only 2-4 people seeing flops, you can lay it down in EP.

Yes, you're playing it primarily for flush value (it only makes one straight). If you flop top pair with no draws, either bet out or go for a check raise if you think you'll get a bet out of late position. A lot of times your hand will hold up. If there's a ton of aggression, you can fold TPNK pretty safely.

In summation, like a lot of things, the answer is "it depends." Post a specific A2s hand to get some more detailed criticism.

Hope this was helpful,
Claunchy

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a. in a very loose passive table, this makes for a good multiway hand. We expect the pot will be not raised and people will be coming in with lots of junk hands, sooted crap, etc. As such, there is good equity in limping. We're playing it mostly for the flush draw value. It is 7.5:1 of flopping 2 or more of the suit.

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I can understand in very loose passive games, where you get 5+ players seeing the flop. But what I don't understand is why SSHE advocates limping in with A2s in tight games with only 3-5 players seeing the flop.

I ask this because I find that when I play .5/1 on Party the games are usually tight by SSHE definitions, and rarely very loose and even rarer are they ever loose passive.

[RustyCJ]

SSH does say that in very loose games you can limp with Axs from EP however, you really need the right kind of game to do this, loose and passive. You don't want to play this with a raise behind you. Unless you know you're going to have a lot of people in the hand.

In most games at .5/1 I don't limp first in at all and I don't play less than A9s with fewer than 3 limpers in front of me.

With hands like A5s and A2s you're looking to make 2 pair, trips, flush or a straight, unless you have 3 or fewer opponents.

Say MP2 limps, CO limps, you're in the SB with A5s, you complete and BB checks. Flop comes A84 rainbow. You will most likely have the best hand. This also depends on your reads of your opponents.

against loose opponents, you'll be fine betting your pair most of the time. Their PF raise % is also important, opponents raising 7% or more of their hands likely would've raised an A with a good kicker. If you find someone who is tight passive and you're betting into them and they call along, then I'd worry. Somone with a VP$IP of 15-17 and a PFR of less than 3, with a post flop aggression less than 1 calling you is probably trouble.

I've learned the # of opponents, type of opponents and your position are very important with this type of hand.

I don't like playing these weak suited aces up front, they are hard to play out of position and if there is a raise behind you, you'll wish you would've folded.

I've still got lots of learning to do, just sharing what I feel comfortable with this far.

If I need to be corrected anywhere, someone please do so.

[Guthrie]

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I can understand in very loose passive games, where you get 5+ players seeing the flop. But what I don't understand is why SSHE advocates limping in with A2s in tight games with only 3-5 players seeing the flop.

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I'm fairly certain that SSHE only advocates limping with A2s in loose games, not tight.

I limped with Axs early through .25/.50 and .50/1, with some success, but gave it up at 1/2 because the games were somewhat tighter, and more aggressive by an order of magnitude. Trying to limp in these games almost always comes back raised, and I really, really don't want to play OOP in a raised pot with A2s. If an ace comes on the flop, I'm screwed by a bigger kicker nearly every time, and even if i catch a flush draw, I'm likely going to have to call a raise on every street to chase. A few of these can really ruin your day.

[Fantam]

You made a nice post Rusty.

I am not sure that anything you suggested needs to be corrected.

In fact I think there has been a lot of good advice in this thread.

Play Ax(s) in loose passive games, where lots of players are seeing the flop and you can get in cheaply.

Obviously hope to get a flush draw, and play top pair cautiously against a big field.

If you end up with top pair against only a few opponents, then of course you can afford to be more aggressive.

But just remember that a lot of players at low limits (and apparently even at higher limits) love to play any Ace.

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I'm fairly certain that SSHE only advocates limping with A2s in loose games, not tight.

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You're right, now that I've double-checked it things make a lot more sense now, thank you.

[Greg J]

I am of the school of thought that says you should play in a preflop comfort zone (to some degree). If you are not comfortable playing A2s in ep because you are not comfortable with what to do on the following streets, then fold it. But also try to develop your game to the point that you can loosen up and play it in ep when it's called for. A2s, in the right game, is a long term money maker in any position.

I guess what I'm trying to say is as you get better try to work limping here into your game where appropriate. As you get better you will find your vpip creeping up -- this is common and IMO natural.