Small Stakes Hold'em p. 141

[medloH]

Example hand in book: Th 3s - Jd 9h 8s

Book says "If several opponents seem committed to the hand, especially in a small pot, you may want to fold. It is too likely that you are drawing to only half the pot."

When are several opponents committed to a small pot on the flop?

Seems like a clearer simpler explanation would be to usually fold if u need to cold call a raise, otherwise usually call.

[Bob T.]

6 players limp.

A player on your left bets, two call, and another one raises before you. Now you are facing two bets, and likely at least four opponents to the turn. Your only backdoor outs are running threes. You have the odds to draw to a straight, but you don't have the odds to draw to a split pot.

Or maybe the SB bets out (you were in the BB with this hand, right?), and now you have all those players behind you, that might raise, and make your odds worse, and you really don't know what is behind you, but a lot of limping hands have cards in the middle range, where this flop is.

On the other hand, if your hand was AT, then you potentially have a lot more outs, because you might win the hand by catching an Ace, so you would continue playing.

[medloH]

Th 3s -- Jd 9h 8s

I guess I'm overly curious about this hand, so I ran some simulations on it. I threw out the really junk starting hands in the sims that even most loose players would not play (unsuited junk, and really bad suited cards).

With 6 players you start having more ties than wins but you'll still get about 15% of the chips (10% wins plus a little less than half of 12% ties(sometimes will chop 3 or more ways)). So you are getting about 7 to 1 odds here with 6 players. Thats not too bad, seems like you could call 1 bet almost always, unless you are early relative to bet and really fear a raise behind, or are facing multiple bets cold.

Don't think raising would make sense. The only hand u may get out that u would want out is another T, but in a small stakes game i doubt if a T would leave for a raise. And you are not strong enough for a value raise. I'd say play this hand passively with 4 or more players. 3 or less, try to semi-bluff your way to the pot against players that could fold.

3 players: losses=70%, wins=22%, ties=8%
NO_PAIR, losses=22190, wins=119, ties=32
ONE_PAIR, losses=35966, wins=2188, ties=199
TWO_PAIR, losses=7350, wins=1481, ties=157
THREE_OF_A_KIND, losses=1132, wins=393, ties=5
STRAIGHT, losses=3419, wins=18091, ties=7278

4 players: losses=73.7%, wins=16.6%, ties=9.5%
NO_PAIR, losses=21936, wins=10, ties=4
ONE_PAIR, losses=37433, wins=746, ties=57
TWO_PAIR, losses=8385, wins=654, ties=73
THREE_OF_A_KIND, losses=1132, wins=353, ties=3
STRAIGHT, losses=4879, wins=14930, ties=9405

5 players: losses=76.2%, wins=12.8%, ties=10.9%
NO_PAIR, losses=22144, wins=1, ties=0
ONE_PAIR, losses=38072, wins=224, ties=25
TWO_PAIR, losses=8658, wins=280, ties=42
THREE_OF_A_KIND, losses=1280, wins=260, ties=5
STRAIGHT, losses=6089, wins=12067, ties=10853

6 players: losses=78.1%, wins=9.9%, ties=11.8%
NO_PAIR, losses=22224, wins=0, ties=0
ONE_PAIR, losses=38243, wins=62, ties=9
TWO_PAIR, losses=8940, wins=133, ties=23
THREE_OF_A_KIND, losses=1278, wins=231, ties=2
STRAIGHT, losses=7500, wins=9521, ties=11834

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats not too bad, seems like you could call 1 bet almost always, unless you are early relative to bet and really fear a raise behind, or are facing multiple bets cold.



[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what I said?