J-J in tournament

StoneRose · #1 07-12-2005, 12:29 PM

I'm in the the big blind in a PartyPoker 20+2 MTT. 1110 entries, approx 300 left, 140 places pay.

blinds are $75/$150.

I've been at my table the entire tournament, and most of the players have been playing fairly tight. Most pots go down with one raise and everyone else folding. I have about $2150 in chips, a litle under average for the table.

I am on the button and am thrilled to get pocket Jacks. The UTG with $1800 who moved to the table a few hands ago and I haven't yet seen play raises $600. I am happy and plan to raise all in. But, lo and behold the player to act immediately before me, a tight, aggressive player raises all-in for $5,500. I know if I call all-in, the original raiser will very likely call -- I couldn't imagine him folding w/ all that money in the pot.

Is this worth a call for the rest of my chips? I could be up agains an overpair and/or 3 overcards. If I fold, I still have $2150 with blinds approaching $100/$200. But if I win, I will more than triple up and be a lot more likely to make the money.

What's the best play?

suited_ace · #2 07-12-2005, 12:32 PM

Congratulations! You've been squeezed. Now lay those cards down, sir.

StoneRose · #3 07-12-2005, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations! You've been squeezed. Now lay those cards down, sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is it a given that I'm way behind? If I knew I'm up against two players with overcards or one with overcards amd one with a lower pair, wouldn't I be getting great odds to try to triple up? Maybe the first player raised with A-Q and the second player tried to go heads up with A-K, wouldn't I want to triple up with my Jacks in that scenario?

Is either folding or calling CLEARLY wrong here?

HonchoOverload · #4 07-12-2005, 01:14 PM

Calling all-in when you have no idea where you're at is almost always wrong.

Pat Southern · #5 07-12-2005, 01:23 PM

JJ is pretty, but you gotta lay this one down.

mustardo · #6 07-12-2005, 01:23 PM

An unknown player UTG raises one third of his stack, he almost definitely has a strong hand and a tight aggressive player who knows this is willing to put all his chips on the line with this information. (Stacks in blinds might be of interest to see how much he is actually risking)

Likelihood imo is it's too likely that you're against atleast one overpair maybe two. Easy fold.

Dan Rutter · #7 07-12-2005, 01:51 PM

You have to fold, you cannot just assume that both opponents have overcards. Also, when an UTG opponent you have no read on raises 1/3 of his stack, you probably should not be happy with JJ. It is a good hand, but can likely be in a situation were you are only a small favorite, or a big underdog. But at this stage in the tourney, if it was folded to you, your probably playing for all your chips.

locutus2002 · #8 07-12-2005, 01:55 PM

I don't think its easy to say what the best play is.

I would probably call and here's why.

I think CO's push is an overbet for his stack size. I think AK is a possibility, and so are midpairs. I think you are ~even against his range of hands.

I think UTG's range of hands includes AQ, and TT so you are about even against him/her aswell.

So I think you are about even in the pot and getting 3:1, which is an excellent place to gamble, versus folding and going into p&f mode when the blinds go up. I would make a stand here even if I thought I wasn't even in the pot (-EV).

HonchoOverload · #9 07-12-2005, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think its easy to say what the best play is.

I would probably call and here's why.

I think CO's push is an overbet for his stack size. I think AK is a possibility, and so are midpairs. I think you are ~even against his range of hands.

I think UTG's range of hands includes AQ, and TT so you are about even against him/her aswell.

So I think you are about even in the pot and getting 3:1, which is an excellent place to gamble, versus folding and going into p&f mode when the blinds go up. I would make a stand here even if I thought I wasn't even in the pot (-EV).

[/ QUOTE ]

Even a situation like this is brutal:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1078347
pokenum -h ac qc - jh jd - kd ts
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Qc 555791 40.55 811478 59.20 3485 0.25 0.406
Jd Jh 504137 36.78 863132 62.97 3485 0.25 0.369
Ts Kd 307341 22.42 1059928 77.32 3485 0.25 0.225

A_PLUS · #10 07-12-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most pots go down with one raise and everyone else folding. I have about $2150 in chips, a litle under average for the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true you should have about 5000 chips and raising 2-3x per orbit.

Since we are where we are, I dont think CO reraise means tremendous strength. Looks like a isolation play to me. He (and you) assume that UG is committed to the pot. Good players will make CO's raise with a fairly wide range. Definitely a range that JJ is worth playing.