PokerNow is detecting PV/PT or possibly PokerStove

[Moneyline]

It's certainly a step in the wrong direction for the players who use the software, but it wouldn't be for Party. By getting rid of a few customers who win, they allow the many customers who lose to play longer, contribute more rake, and be more likely to redeposit because they weren't immediately destroyed by a bunch of pros and rocks/pros.

Party doesn't need multitabling PV pros nearly as much as they need Party. Party's player base of amateurs is so huge that they don't need regular pros around to keep games going, and they'll probably make at least as much rake without these players than they would do with them.

[pyroponic]

[ QUOTE ]
Party's player base of amateurs is so huge that they don't need regular pros around to keep games going

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Sure there's enough fish to keep the games going but good players (especially that multi-table) make for a huge portion of their player base. And the fish who stay alive longer are not necessarily long-term rake producing players which a lot of TAGs on Party are.

[PennyAnte]

As long as there are player profiling programs allowed, I will refuse to play online poker at any site that allows them. Which is your loss not mine, because I'm a fish.

What is needed is for some major publication to expose how these programs are being used against recreational players.

[iluzion]

[ QUOTE ]

Party doesn't need multitabling PV pros nearly as much as they need Party. Party's player base of amateurs is so huge that they don't need regular pros around to keep games going, and they'll probably make at least as much rake without these players than they would do with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You play what, $25NL or .5/1? Try playing 3/6+ past prime time hours, all there is are a bunch of multi tabling pros and rocks.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe charge a fee. Like if Party blocked all of these applications, but said "If you pay us $15 a month you can see stats on all of your opponets" it would be good. For one, the people who could use this information to their advantage will have it already, and the people who can't either arn't going to pay, or if they do, wouldn't know how the information should effect their play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect the poker sites would say that this isn't good for the purity of the game...like the designated hitter in baseball.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding me?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ QUOTE ]
And the fish who stay alive longer are not necessarily long-term rake producing players which a lot of TAGs on Party are

[/ QUOTE ]

An amateur won't contribute as much rake as a pro, but there are a lot more amateurs. If the games get too tough these amateurs will get slaughtered and swear off poker. If they are able to survive and not lose too fast, many of them will develop a poker hobby and become long-term rake generators. It's true that multi-tabling pros using PV and playing on auto-pilot produce a lot of rake for Party, but they will keep producing rake regardless of whether they are allowed to use PV or not. The only difference is that they'll just take a lot less money off the table without it, which is ultimately great for the game.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
Try playing 3/6+ past prime time hours, all there is are a bunch of multi tabling pros and rocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is your opinion then I suggest you work on your game selection skills. Regardless, the games are a lot less good than they used to be on Party because these types of players have been killing off a lot of fish. The pool of fish needs to be maintained before they are totally killed off. In the long run, making things a little harder for the multitablers now will make things a lot easier for the multitablers in the future.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Try playing 3/6+ past prime time hours, all there is are a bunch of multi tabling pros and rocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is your opinion then I suggest you work on your game selection skills. Regardless, the games are a lot less good than they used to be on Party because these types of players have been killing off a lot of fish. The pool of fish needs to be maintained before they are totally killed off. In the long run, making things a little harder for the multitablers now will make things a lot easier for the multitablers in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Howzat?

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a step in the wrong direction for more reasons than that. One, it would encourage us to leave for other sites. Two, those who stay (and if this sparks a poker site revolution of banning these programs) are not going to be able to play 4+ tables paying thousands of dollars in rake every month, they would begin to play one or two tables at a time, maybe a step or two higher than what they usually 8 table, but overall the site is generating far less money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So (of course), collecting information about your opponents by studying how they play is a BIG part of poker. A lot of players at these forums use software to automate this part of playing poker. At the same time they are furious about other people using bots. Am I the only one who feels that the lines are being drawn a little arbitrary, and obviously self-serving, here? Some parts of playing poker are OK to automate and others are not?

Of course there's a difference, but it's a difference in degree, not in character. Let's be honest about it.

I think all support-software should be banned from use while playing.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]

So (of course), collecting information about your opponents by studying how they play is a BIG part of poker. A lot of players at these forums use software to automate this part of playing poker. At the same time they are furious about other people using bots. Am I the only one who feels that the lines are being drawn a little arbitrary, and obviously self-serving, here? Some parts of playing poker are OK to automate and others are not?

Of course there's a difference, but it's a difference in degree, not in character. Let's be honest about it.

I think all support-software should be banned from use while playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I certainly disagree with you. IMHO, it is clearly a matter of character, and not degree.

There is a HUGE difference between software that collects/aggregates statistics and software that actually plays for you.

With PokerTracker and PV/GT+, you still have to be a winning player to win. With a bot, it makes no difference, as the player's skill does not come into question.

The fundamental point is the concept of artificial intelligence. Bots make decisions for you, PokerTracker and PV do not. That draws a clear distinction between the nature of the programs.

One allows winning players to win more, while the other allows any jackass to win.