My pocket KKs are losing - Page 4

crunchy1 · #31 10-17-2005, 08:14 AM

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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

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Why aren't you capping this PF?

private joker · #32 10-17-2005, 04:20 PM

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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

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Why aren't you capping this PF?

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There were three reasons on this hand.

1) Deception
2) I wanted to see how MP1 reacted to the 3-bet; if he capped, it narrowed his range to JJ-AA and AK. If he just called, he could have a much wider range.
3) Game theory; I cap here 90% of the time and call 10% of the time, since you have to mix it up and not get too predictable. At 5/10 full, you run into a lot the same players every day and I assume they're taking notes, and some of them are at this table.

jason_t · #33 10-17-2005, 04:23 PM

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Its impossible to lose with AA, KK, and QQ. simple.

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AK, too.

beset7 · #34 10-17-2005, 04:48 PM

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Its impossible to lose with AA, KK, and QQ. simple.

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AK, too.

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Is that a challenge? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

SeaEagle · #35 10-17-2005, 04:51 PM

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Are you sure? I happen to have done the math on this and humbly suggest that anyone calling with Ax is probably costing you money, provided you do not plan to check and fold an ace high flop.

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Maybe you could post your math in a separate thread. If you are proposing that Ax has an advantage over KK, then I'm going to disagree with you.

jason_t · #36 10-17-2005, 04:53 PM

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Its impossible to lose with AA, KK, and QQ. simple.

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AK, too.

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Is that a challenge? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Yes.

#37 10-17-2005, 04:55 PM

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Are you sure? I happen to have done the math on this and humbly suggest that anyone calling with Ax is probably costing you money, provided you do not plan to check and fold an ace high flop.

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Maybe you could post your math in a separate thread. If you are proposing that Ax has an advantage over KK, then I'm going to disagree with you.

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I guess in a HU situation, if they will check/fold if they miss, and we pay them off all the time they hit, they might make money when we have KK. But they will lose a lot of money when we have AK, AQ etc.

Aces McGee · #38 10-17-2005, 05:02 PM

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At 5/10 full, you run into a lot the same players every day and I assume they're taking notes, and some of them are at this table.

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What other hands are you calling two out of the BB here?

-McGee

private joker · #39 10-17-2005, 05:07 PM

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What other hands are you calling two out of the BB here?

-McGee

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Probably most hands that I 3-bet with -- TT/JJ, AKo/AKs. I'm probably folding AQs, but I can't remember that situation coming up recently.

SeaEagle · #40 10-17-2005, 05:13 PM

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I guess in a HU situation, if they will check/fold if they miss, and we pay them off all the time they hit, they might make money when we have KK.

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I don't want to derail this thread too far so I'll limit myself to one reply. If Ax always folds when it misses its A and always gets to showdown when it hits, then maybe KK would lose money (my back-of-the-envelope calcs still show KK to be a solid winner in this scenario). But, Ax will play on with losing hands when he hits his kicker (and is still behind) as well as sometimes when he misses completely.