Need your thoughts on this....

[Ironman]

Playing tonight in a typical UB 1/2 limit game.

I'm in the small blind and dealt 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I'm up a few bucks at this point and decide to complete just to see if I can catch a king...I usually would fold this.

So, there are 3 callers in front of me, I complete and the BB checks along.

Flop ( 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] )

I check, 3 others check and the button bets.

What's my move?

I didn't raise...but the more I think about it the more I think I should have raised here to knock any draws out and get this heads up.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Dave

[TGoldman]

Easy fold. If you raise, at best everyone else will fold around to the button who probably has an A2, A4, or 45. If so congrats, you're now heads-up and getting freerolled. Worse and more likely, your raise will weed out the weak hands leaving you against the strong high and low hands that both have you in bad shape. I don't have a problem speculating a bit from the SB but you missed your set. Fold.

[GooperMC]

I like to complete with KK but I would fold with out hesitation on that flop. You are not going to fold an A2 or even an A4 so you have a weak hand and very little fold equity. I think that a raise here would be horrible.

[hachkc]

I also have a bad affection for KKxx, usually with at least 1 suited.

I play'em on a "limp and a prayer.".

[MyTurn2Raise]

I'm trying to get over playing AAxx with one suited

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I check, 3 others check and the button bets.

What's my move?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave - Fold. Very straightforward.

You took a flyer but missed catching a king on the flop. Now fold.

Playing two small flopped pairs for half the pot in a limit game would be horrid. Raising here would be asking for trouble. Even if you succeed at getting heads-up, you're an underdog against a random hand after this flop. (I have it 5757 to 4243, simulated, in favor of Button with random cards, one-on-one). Imagine how much more of an underdog you are if Button actually has a fit with this flop!

Perhaps interestingly, 37KKn is a pre-flop favorite (5562 to 4438) against a random hand. However, after this particular flop, even though 37KKn makes two pair on the flop, 37KKn becomes an under-dog.

Reminds me of a dog we had once that was half coyote named "Under-dog." Underdog wasn't much of a watchdog because when someone would come onto our premises, instead of barking or at least wagging his tail, he would quickly and unobtrusively hide.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm up a few bucks at this point and decide to complete just to see if I can catch a king...I usually would fold this.

[/ QUOTE ]

"and lead us not into temptation"

I have to admit I'd be tempted too. But in truth, 37KKn probably isn't even good enough to play for half a bet from the small blind.

Basically, you're playing a two card hand in a four card game, because the three and seven add hardly anything to the value of the hand - probably just getting you in trouble if they catch any part of the flop and you are foolish enough to continue.

Even if you do catch a king on the flop (which you'll only do about one time out of every eight), the board still probably needs to pair.

Finally, note the hand is non-suited. I have an aversion to playing rainbow hands that would help me withstand the temptation to see the flop with 37KKn.

Buzz

[Ironman]

wow....thanks everyone.

I completely missed that. I find it surprising that I'm a post flop underdog with two pair against a likely A 2 on this disjointed board.

Ok...again, thanks.

Dave

[chaos]

I would have folded preflop, but that was not your question.

You flopped top and bottom pair on a low board. You have no low so you are only playing for half the pot. Playing for half the pot, out of position, with a weak hand that has little chance to improve is not where you want to be. A clear fold.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I completely missed that. I find it surprising that I'm a post flop underdog with two pair against a likely A 2 on this disjointed board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave - Against a likely ace-deuce? Hold on now, that's going to change things a bit. In that case, it's 62925 to 37075 (better than 3 to 2) in favor of the ace-deuce hand.

This board is evidently not disjointed for A2XY.

Your 37KK with the flopped two pair does go on to win for high more than A2XY - but it NEVER scoops and is overwhelmingly beaten for low by A2XY.

Buzz

[Ironman]

Never scoops....yeah. That's the key.

I should probably rasie in this position when the low hands are still on a draw, but back off when I have lost the pot.

Thanks everyone. I'm glad I posted this.

Dave