MICRO LIMIT ONLY, SH: totally lost, advice sought

[fire_fly]

Ok, this is going to be a bit long, but for those interested in giving some input, read on...

And by the way, this is for 1/2 ONLY! I have no interest in 5/10 or 3/6 or 10/20. I've searched through the HUSH forum quite a bit, and whenever someone who is TOTAL nOOb playing only the SMALLEST stakes, someone always replys, with say, this link , which I consider to be COMPLETELY useless, seeing as all they talk about is 5/10. Is a vpip of 60-65 normal at 5/10? I REALLY doubt it. Do people defend their blinds INCESSANTLY with any 2 cards at 5/10? I really doubt that too.

I'm a pretty big, relatively consistent winner in full table micro limits (8bb/100 over 20k hands at .25/.50 and 5/bb 100 over 12k of .50/1, yeah yeah, sample size/variance blah blah, but I know I am beating these guys, possibly running hot? Actually, I really feel I'm running COLD at .50/1 after looking at my #s, but anyways.)

I've been clearing pretty much every bonus under the sun at the party skins playing .50/1, but wanted to attempt the cryptos and get some of that monthly bonus money, and wanted to dip my toes in 1/2 (which I've been wanting to do for a while) at the same time.

I sign up for cryptos. I log on. I see 23-28 % players per flop at full tables (and say F*** that, btw [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). I recall all the posts I've seen about how much softer 6max on cryptos is. I see vpip at 55-65 there. I say to myself "I WILL LEARN TO PLAY 6MAX!"

Started off running well. Just played SLIGHTLY looser than SSH loose guidelines, both limping and raising standards. Let the donks who play 50-80 % of their starting hands pay me off. I'm doing well.

1k hands later, I'm running at least moderately cold, and realize i have NO clue what to do in LOTS of situations.

Ok, I'm justing going to go down the list of where I'm confused.

1.) Starting hands. I've seen lots of people point to this starting hand chart. I'm not quite sure how to articulate this but...

A lot of the CO and Button first in raising just does not make sense to me. 22-66 first in raise on button or CO? Or raise J10, s or o? I ran some numbers in card players hold'em calculator, and it just seems that raising J10s or J10 (and the chart even says raise 109s) is a bad idea. Anyone who defends with as little as Q rag is a 50.7 % favorite if my J10 is suited and a 54 % favorite if it isn't. The same could be said for steal raising with something such as QJ if someone defends with K rag, etc. What I'm saying is that it seems like I'm raising with the worst of it is these steal-raise situations.

Oh oh, this is gonna be fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I KNOW people are going to say "You raise because there is a chance to win the blinds right there without a fight, that pre-flop fold equity will make up for the times that you are raising with the worst of it."

For my 1k hands at cryptos (I know, horribly small sample size, but if this isn't a trend , I don't know what is.) PT stats: Att. To Steal Blinds: 21 times, No flop %: 0.00 %
Not a single time out of 21 did the blinds both fold. I checked my 1k hands for 6max and saw that only 5.2% of the time at the whole table did everyone fold to a raise.

What does this mean? I think that the chart is flawed for 1/2 because the blinds are so loose, the fold equity is pretty damn near 0 percent.

So how should I adjust for this? J10, suited or not, is definately not worth a raise first in imho because of the already mentioned statistics. So what is? Q 10? K 10? I really don't know (advice in these uber loose pf games greatly appriciated.)

2.) Good starting hands which are raised and only called by 1 or 2 people pf, which proceed to whiff the flop.

Ok, I'm just gonna throw out a VERY common hand here as an example.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Ok, BIG SURPRISE, both these guys call, both are 50-65 vp$ip after 45 hands

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

I'm feeling totally ran over right now, and am playing very girly as a result (but this was the exception, I WAS betting out on this flop on 90% of these hands, and I was mixing up my play a bit, because my flop bets were getting ZERO respect at the time.)

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

I figure because no one bet the flop that it was probable that everyone missed. That would mean that this pairing up would not have helped anyone, and barring someone from having better than A 10, I was ahead, so I bet, hoping for folds. Doh, someone calls. I'll probably bet out the river though if another blank hits, because I can't imagine being behind right now, especially after everyone checked the turn.

River: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Ok, sb bets. I cannot imagine a hand which he would bet the river on that I beat. Is this a weak fold here? I would have to catch a bluff more than 20% of time to make this a profitable call. And I totally believe he could have paired up, seeing as he plays over 50 % of his starting hands. He could have anything. But should I be calling more in these situations?

Final Pot: 6 BB

I don't normally check the flop, but I think this was just at the tail end of a session where I was feeling hopelessly lost. But even in these situations, I either bet and a worse hand folds, or I am called by a better hand (ie, someone hit a pair on the flop will surely call a turn bet, unless possibly an A shows up.)

So I either bet and hope for everyone to fold (which seems to extremely rarely happen (ps, I know this hand is from paradise, but I've played about 3/4 of my hands on the crytos and run into the exact same type of players)) or I bet and get called by a better hand.

I know that this is the accepted play (betting out on the flop in this case) but what happens when I'm called? Bet again when I whiff the turn knowing that he very well may be ahead with at least a pair? And even when he doesn't and folds a worse hand, I take down an 4 bb pot, but when he calls, do I try again when I whiff the river? Isn't this just betting his hand for him when I'm behing? EV- anyone? What if another blank hits on 5th and he bets out? All of these scenarios seem ev- to me.

Ok, I think this post has been plenty long, and mirrors the feelings of many posters here who are brand spanking new to SH.

So please, do not respond with "Well, when I play 10/20..." unless you SERIOUSLY believe that there is no difference/ very little difference between your limit and 1/2. So either reach back into the depths of your mind back when you played such low stakes, or for those of you kicking a** at this limit now, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

PS I pray to God at night to send me a SSH:6max book in the mail. And yes, I own and have read/reread the shorthanded section of HFAP about 4 times. Still lost feeling totally lost.

Thanks for taking the time to read this guys, and hope it doesn't piss anyone off too much that I am posting so many nOOb questions that no doubt bore the hell out of you more experienced folk. Thanks for the help.

[Matty]

During the time you spent typing that you could have read 4 or 5 HUSH threads which would be much more +EV.

[imitation]

What you want is just not going to happen, you want someone to hand you a silver platter with the answers to SH poker on it, it's not going to happen period...Read new threads, read old threads, think about situations you are in and how they apply to what you are playing.

Your post is a total ramble, you whinge about misinformation on this forums, then you want the same folk to give you advice....It's all here just read some more....and play some more....

[gronmo]

Looking at my last 50k hands at party 1/2 6max (chance to steal and raised in PT)

times: 2387
win%: 61.67
BB/hand: 0.47

I attempt to steal the blinds ~30%

From my more detail section:

steal sucess
no flop: 16.93
fold: 22.37
wwosd: 42.52
wsd: 35.11
w$sd: 54.53

Even though I steal liberaly by your standards, pretty much every hand with more than 10 samples is showing a profit (with the odd exceptions of course. like KQ being a -EV hand in my sample). I'm 8 tabling 1/2 6max (5 party, 3 absolute).

Blind stealing and defense is an important part of your game and if you're not trying to improve in this area it can seriously hurt your winrate.

In my sample the blinds only fold about 17% of the time but that does in no way mean that blind stealing is useless. Although posts from players playing at 5/10 and 10/20 may seem irrelevant to you but they are not. You should make a seriously effort to study these situations. Important concepts are showndown value of hands and bluffing. A lot of the time both you and your opponents are going to miss the flop and knowing when to fire bets at it is cruical. Learn how to play in marginal situations.

[maxpowers21]

bet flop

[imitation]

My Att to Steal Blinds at 1/2 is 40% and I've beaten this game for 40k hands through a few different DB for around 3.5BB/100

[ravballz]

Run the table over. That's what most people do, I do it, and it works.

[ QUOTE ]
1.) Starting hands. I've seen lots of people point to this starting hand chart. I'm not quite sure how to articulate this but...


[/ QUOTE ]

Screw starting hand charts, just figure out what works for you. Most people always raise first in, you should start doing that too. With as low as JTo or 87s etc.

You can start out by playing similar to your LP full ring hands preflop, then work on getting looser and looser until you reach ~25 VPIP.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh oh, this is gonna be fun I KNOW people are going to say "You raise because there is a chance to win the blinds right there without a fight, that pre-flop fold equity will make up for the times that you are raising with the worst of it."


[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the time someone will call your "blind steals". It doesn't matter, they will fold the flop often enough, or you will hit your cards often enough to make it very profitable.

On the hand you posted is a great example of what you are doing wrong, you need to have the aggression down. You need to usually bet the turn too, and probably take the free showdown.

When you raise a lot preflop, people will start betting into you when the flop comes all rags (even when they miss), often you have to raise with A high etc, just to not be so predictable.

Just play, think controlled aggression (i.e don't raise the turn with crapola just because you're pissed that he bets). It's a lot different than full ring but you should have it down with not much practice. Post hands here, read hands here and you should be good soon enough.

[helpmeout]

No one wants to read all that junk just get to the point.

If the blinds arent going to fold then open limp except when you have a premium/good hand.

You mainly want to raise weak Aces and low PPs on the button because if you can get 1 to fold you are a favourite. If there is zero chance of either folding then dump the very low PPs and trash aces.

In your AT hand you have to bet the flop, if neither folds then you can take the freecard on the turn and fold the river if you dont improve. If one folds on the flop then you can follow up on the turn and take a free showdown.

In the lower limits you want to play less aggressive because you have low bluff equity, you mainly want to showdown the best hand. Just like ring games you limp UTG with low pairs and medium suited connectors expecting lots of limpers.

[NLSoldier]

Are you the guy that was at the .5/1 table when me and Schneids and BK sat down and kept capping every hand and you kept freaking talking about 2+2?

That was incredibly lame.

[fire_fly]

No, I haven't played tonight. And yes, I agree, it's annoying as hell when people start throwing around poker terms at the tables. Letting the fish know they are being taken is a horrible idea [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And I'm going to make the initial post WAY shorter right now.

Damn it, says the "edit time has expired." Sorry about the length guys. Note to self: don't post when incredibly tired...