tough spot w/ QQ in WPT paris sat

[daryn]

tough spot here with QQ. would he call the flop with just an ace? maybe AT but i felt like he called the flop on a draw and then bet me off my hand on the river.. i'm still wondering if i should have called here... thoughts?

i have 22405 to start the hand, villain has 20070

i am dealt red QQ and make it 750 utg+1, blinds are 150/300, 750 has been my standard raise to steal so i'm sticking with it for now. there are a few folds and 2 guys call, LP and villain in bb.

flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i bet 3k, bb calls

turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], check check

river: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and bb leads out for the pot, 8400

[bugstud]

tough river spot. I generally like betting 5k on the turn and checking behind instead, because of this.
You'll probably see A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] when you call.

[fnord_too]

That looks like a call to me. A pot size bet just does not make sense to me there, so I probably look the guy up. I would expect a weak ace or a monster to make about a smaller bet, either as a blocking bet or a milking bet. A pot size bet there looks too much like it's begging you to fold. A big overbet would scare me since I would be afraid he was tryig to convince me a monster was a bluff.

[woodguy]

I bet the A too, since now we don't really have a clue as whether he's betting for value or if you induced a bluff with your turn check.

Bet the turn, if he raises you on the turn you can comfortably fold.

If he calls the turn and leads the river you can let it go with a clear conscience as well.

If he calls the turn and checks the river, I check behind.

I call the river bet, but I'm not smiling when I do it.

Regards,
Woodguy

[MLG]

this is a hand we want to get to showdown cheap. thing is, its probably cheaper by betting the turn, and checking behind on the river than by checking the turn and calling the river. given the spot, I can't say call or fold without knowing relative chip positions and stage of the tourney and such.

[ZeeJustin]

The villian in the hand is Pete "TheBeat" Giordano. I think that is a crucial peice of info for analyzing the hand.

Also, on the turn note that there is 8400 in the pot, the villian has 16320 chips, and Daryn has him barely covered.

Those that say bet the turn, you need to clarify and say how much you bet. A big bet commits you while a smell bet is too likely to get check raised.

Personally, I think the 3k bet on the flop is too much because of the awkward scenario it puts you in on the turn. Note that you would be in a similar spot if the turn were a ten, a king, or any spade.

If you bet 2k on the flop, the turn will look like this:
6400 in the pot, and the Villian has 17k chips. Now you can fire a 4-5k bet, and safely fold to a check raise, while still making a bet strong enough to represent something.

[LarsVegas]

I would strongly consider checking it to LP, which is close to my default play with any hand I raise somewhat late in tournaments and get called by someone behind.

If it gets checked around, no matter what falls on the turn, you can pay less attention to what strong drawing hands that may get there, as there is now only one card to come.

On the flop, you are building a quite big pot already with two betting streets to come with a good, but very vulnerable hand and mediocre position (and against strong players obviously).

If LP bets something like your 3k and big blind calls or folds, I think you have enough of a hand here for the long run to make a big raise which would obviously commit you totally for all your chips.

lars

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
The villian in the hand is Pete "TheBeat" Giordano. I think that is a crucial peice of info for analyzing the hand.

Also, on the turn note that there is 8400 in the pot, the villian has 16320 chips, and Daryn has him barely covered.

Those that say bet the turn, you need to clarify and say how much you bet. A big bet commits you while a smell bet is too likely to get check raised.

Personally, I think the 3k bet on the flop is too much because of the awkward scenario it puts you in on the turn. Note that you would be in a similar spot if the turn were a ten, a king, or any spade.

If you bet 2k on the flop, the turn will look like this:
6400 in the pot, and the Villian has 17k chips. Now you can fire a 4-5k bet, and safely fold to a check raise, while still making a bet strong enough to represent something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 5k is probably still enough on the turn? or close?