Play from a poorer country and you're set?

[dogmeat]

Professional blackjack and poker have grown closer together over the years (with respect to risk of ruin) as the number of hands played at poker has increased (especially with multi-table play) and met or exceeded the hands played per hour at BJ. However, IMHO there is still a big difference between the two, and the classic ROR formula for BJ need not be applied to poker with respect to factoring in expenses.
Certainly the ROR is greatly increased by a card counter when standard, unavoidable expenses are added to the equation because the usual bankroll and subsequent success for the counter involves doubling the bankroll. However, again, this is not exactly the case with a poker player who is well bankrolled (although some aspects are similar) because the chance of ruin is not tied to the player "doubling" the bankroll. Expenses are simply expenses, and poker players rely on sustaining a certain bankroll and taking the winning above that threshold.

I have wondered in the past how well the ROR of BJ and Poker really do relate, since the BJ counter is playing to between a 1 and 2 percent edge and a (successful, winning) poker player is probably playing a considerably higher overall edge. Has anybody done an analysis of a (2BB/hr) poker player's overall edge? Or, without using any higher math can we compare the two as thus: BJ counter makes about 1 average bet per hour (100 hands)and a poker pro makes about 3BB per 100 hands and therefore enjoys an overall expectation three times that of a BJ player? Or, two times that per hour? Oversimplified? Yes. How do you see it?

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Derek in NYC]

I had a different idea. What if some piss-poor third world country like Sri Lanka decided to develop online poker as an "industry". People could go to college and major in "poker". The government would set up a building with connectivity and government-owned accounts. The professional poker players would sit down with the government's bankroll, and "play" 5/10 or 10/20 holdem. Supervisors would be on the lookout for cheaters/colluders dumping off government money to private parties. Players would be rated on their play skills and profitability, and would get an override on profits. It would basically be similar to the way a Wall Street trading desk works, except it would be done with poker. Could this amount to a meaningful revenue stream in a country like Sri Lanka or Tibet, which is essentially agricultural?

[pkrPlayerBr]

I have thought about it since I am from Brazil and live in the US.

But as of now I am not good enough to make this decision. I need to play consistent poker for about 2 years (show profitability in the ranges that would allow me to live abroad.)

I have been playing since August and for the first 4 months I was -3k. Since then I have been able to offset the losses with 2nd/3rd place finishes in $50 tourney. My game has also improved where I have consistently made over $1.5k/month.

I did the math and 2k is basically what I need to live there. I just have to make sure I keep improving my play and the money keeps on coming in.

In another 2 years I can probably make that decision.

[BruceZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Professional blackjack and poker have grown closer together over the years (with respect to risk of ruin) as the number of hands played at poker has increased (especially with multi-table play) and met or exceeded the hands played per hour at BJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROR does not degrade with the number of hands per hour you play (unless you play so many that it degrades your win rate). The ability of poker players to play multiple tables has allowed them the opportunity to greatly reduce their ror by playing multiple tables at a lower limit, thus giving them a lower variance for the same EV.


[ QUOTE ]
However, IMHO there is still a big difference between the two, and the classic ROR formula for BJ need not be applied to poker with respect to factoring in expenses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expenses subtract directly from your win rate no matter what game you play, and the same risk of ruin formula can be used for both games. Good poker players typically have a lower ror than bj players because they have a lower ratio of variance to EV. That's the bottom line.


[ QUOTE ]
Certainly the ROR is greatly increased by a card counter when standard, unavoidable expenses are added to the equation because the usual bankroll and subsequent success for the counter involves doubling the bankroll.However, again, this is not exactly the case with a poker player who is well bankrolled (although some aspects are similar) because the chance of ruin is not tied to the player "doubling" the bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't understand this point about doubling the bankroll.


[ QUOTE ]
Or, without using any higher math can we compare the two as thus: BJ counter makes about 1 average bet per hour (100 hands)and a poker pro makes about 3BB per 100 hands and therefore enjoys an overall expectation three times that of a BJ player?

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously need to know how much the poker player had to invest to win that 3 bb. It is not necessarily the same as the bj player.

[morello]

How exactly do you plan to funnel 100,000$ (or whatever it is you're earning as a professional) into your Canadian bank account without someone taking notice?

Yeah, if you're making like $10k or less you can probably get away with it. If you're making any real money, you likely can't.

(and the "get a job at McDonalds for 5hours a week, now you're not a professional! argument definitely does not hold merit wrt to Revenue Canada)

[college_boy]

I could see a cult setting up shop and doing something like this. It would be pretty profitable for them imo.

[jokerthief]

I don't think this would work unless the government was despotic or grossly under payed their workers. I think if the workers were able to make even a marginal income doing this, they would do whatever it took to get thier own computer so they could keep all that they win.

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
How exactly do you plan to funnel 100,000$ (or whatever it is you're earning as a professional) into your Canadian bank account without someone taking notice?


[/ QUOTE ]

I allways wondered if they could pick up on one of those neteller debit card things.... Don't know much about neteller, but arent they an offshore company? If you just used cash straight from Neteller, is there anyway the tax man could catch up with you?

[faith]

I've lived in and played online from Thailand for about 3 years now. The dollar does go much further here than at home, so the little change I make online helps out much more than back in the States... There are some issues to keep in mind before living in and playing from another country.

Passport/ visa: Fellow Americans... I know it's hard, but to live in a foreign country, you'll have to get a passport.
Check visa requirements... Some countries have retirement visa, can also check work visas, student visas, tourist visas and their durations / requirements. Wherever u plan to go, talk to others that have lived there for a while.

Is there a community of expats in your planned destination? Makes a difference in what goods and services are available from back home.

Taxes: Living here (345+ days a year is the line I believe) US citizens pay no Fica for the first 80K... unsure if that applies to a certain list of countries or just living outside the US for the year.

Internet Availability: Non-issue, from broadband service to quickie 1 month unlimited dialup cards bought at 7/11... it's all here. Wi-Fi ports... stations.. whatever they're called are popping up in travel hubs here on a daily basis.

Live games: spuratic/ all but nonexistant, I'm building a table and have a set of chips being printed just on the off chance I can get something started...

Legality: All gambling except for state run lottery is illegal here. This is an issue not because of local enforcement, but because of the online sites. Some won't allow me to conduct transactions from here, one won't even let me log into their real money site.

Bottom line with legalities: usually not a local issue, but can create issues with access availability at the online sites.

Party ('n skins): cannot innitiate transactions from here
I have my brother do it in the states

Paradise, Stars, Cryptic skins, Absolute: No Problem

Pokerroom: unsure... 3 yrs ago, no problem; then the cashier page was blocked, due to access here;

Pacific: Cannot log into real money site.

Netteller: Cannot access account from many developing countries. Thailand is on that list... I use firepay, no real isues there. Just be sure to check their list.

If anyone's made it this far...
Any card player that makes it out to Bangkok, shoot me an email; first beer's on me.

landrumam@hotmail.com
aaron

[joop]

[ QUOTE ]

The main thing that comes to mind is what kind of taxes you're going to have to pay. I'd want somewhere that there wouldn't be any tax on "gambling." This will be the biggest difference in my mind between there and the U.S.

kingcobrapoker.com

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone know of any countries where gambling winnings aren't taxed? Particularly in Europe.