Jump in to 5/10 from 2/4. Don't liked it at all - help needed.

Akimka · #1 04-15-2005, 11:37 AM

I have runned away from 5/10 just now.
I don't like what happens there at all. After loose/passive 2/4 games that's hyperagression was surprise for me. PFR 12-15 (full table) is it normal or just 'special' table?

Here hand for example - please comment it. Would you play it same? How about CC?

And in summary - expirienced players - how would you adapt to 5/10 full after 2/4? Or may be just forget it and play SH? Or don't play 5/10 - 10/20 at all? But i afraid to play 15/30 just after 2/4 even bankrolled for it.

May be you can throw me some good links/posts - about adaptation to 5/10 up? For now i don't really sure that i can hold such pressure - high stakes AND agression (higher stdev as result) is a short way to tilt.

That's 5/10 (hyper)agression - is it normal thing on 5/10? On 15/30 is same agression?

Hand and stats

UTG VPIP 32, PFR 16, postflop passive
MP2 VPIP VPIP 44, PFR 11, postflop unknown. 9 hand on him
Button VPIP 71, PFR 28, postflop unknown, passive maybe.
Button has been noted at limp, cap raise&reraise with T8s (on UTG).

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button raises, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (15.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

Piiop · #2 04-15-2005, 11:39 AM

Why would you go from 2/4 straight to 5/10?

flair1239 · #3 04-15-2005, 11:49 AM

Table selection becomes more important.

The play pre-flop anyway is generally more aggressive, but it looks like you were caught up with some maniacs.

FoodForThought · #4 04-15-2005, 11:50 AM

Why would you skip $3/$6? There is a BIG difference between $2/$4 and $3/$6. In my opinion, this is where the biggest transition occurs (on Party anyhow). I don't feel there is as big a difference (although, there is) between $3/$6 and $5/$10. Learn how to beat $3/$6 first....the move to $5/$10. Then, once you learn how to beat $5/$10...$15/$30 should be easier, but do NOT play without the proper bankroll. On a separate note...looked like you were in a great $5/$10 game based on the stats you posted.

Fat Nicky · #5 04-15-2005, 11:52 AM

first, jumping from 2/4 to 5/10 is the biggest mistake you can make. it's ok to take a shot once in a while, but from the sound of it, you don't seems mentally nor physically (poker skill) prepared for this game. I'd jump back to 2/4 ASAP, get your confindence back, then win consistently at 3/6 before moving to 5/10.

second, in the hand, I don't like the PF cold-call w/KQs in an aggressive game. There is a decent chance it will be 3-bet pre-flop, and you will probably have to pay many bets to draw if you do flop a draw, not to mention the reverse implied odds should you catch a K or Q.

I don't like the flop bet either, in this game, it is almost certain you will be raised. You want to try to check/call her and peel one off for cheap.

Turn and river standard....

Good luck!

mute · #6 04-15-2005, 11:55 AM

Why not try 3/6. It's right in between.

As for the hand I would like to see the turn as cheaply as possible, so I would just check/call.

cassady · #7 04-15-2005, 11:57 AM

1). I would have raised preflop. With a 16% preflop raiser, your hand is probably good. Can argue for a call if you're seeing a lot of these pots raised in early position still go multi-way, as the flush potential of your cards plays well multiway. Guess this one depends on the table.

2). What are you opening the betting here for. Betting into a preflop raiser on a really ragged flop isn't a bad move when used against a TOUGH opponent who is capible of the fold. This guy was obviously loose/aggressive. You're asking for the raise here, putting more money into the pot with what is at present a very speculative hand of two overs and a backdoor flush. I'd say this is terrible.

3). Turn and the river look good to me.

PS: If you're tired of 2/4, try 3/6. I find that's where players start to get moderate abilities.

flair1239 · #8 04-15-2005, 12:01 PM

With that read on UTG, I would make this three bets pre-flop. I think that would have changed the whole complexion of the hand.

As played on the flop, I guess I am not entirely against the bet. I think it's value is very depreciated by the fact, that there is little laydown value to it because the pot is big and you have noted all these players really enjoy calling. But since the pot is big, that is probably more reason to bet (I am not sure how often we get an Ax hand to fold.). All that said though, I don't think that checking/calling would have been bad.

The rest of the hand is good.

Fat Nicky · #9 04-15-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With that read on UTG, I would make this three bets pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your merits for 3-betting pre-flop, but IMO, 3-betting from UTG+1 is too early a position to do so, especially in an aggressive game. I could be wrong, but those are just my thoughts.

That guy · #10 04-15-2005, 12:11 PM

That's 5/10 (hyper)agression - is it normal thing on 5/10?

it is certainly not unusual. the problem with making that jump is that you can pretty quickly go -$100 at 5/10 without much happening and after playing 2/4, that will probably affect you.

you hear these pros say that you need to really lose a sense of what money is worth to play poker correctly... I agree. if you can't do that, you are playing too high.

but you can see that if you make a draw, the pots are huge and you can win a lot. the pots get big with so much pre-flop raising and re-raising -- then you often have odds to peel one off... which turns into calling 2 when it gets raised again behind you on the flop... all of a sudden, you are in for 5 small bets with your AJs... repeat this a few times and you can quickly be down -$100 or -$125... then you win a pot and you are up a few bucks. just a matter of getting used to it.

just don't go thinking that a guy who reraises you has only (AA-JJ or AK). yes, he will have that once in a while but often he is just trying to take control of the pot and will slow down after the preflop and flop scare-tactics.

You are not playing Chan and Negreanu at 5/10... just wait for good spots and ride the roller coaster that is limit hold em...