Making an Ace of myself

irishpint · #1 07-20-2005, 10:13 PM

cross posted in HUSH, curious what you guys have to say. i'm clueless.

The converter won't work. Sorry. First orbit (3rd hand or something) so no reads at all. Again, sorry. Here's the hand.

3/6 6max
PF
UTG call, UTG1 calls, MP checks (poster) I call w/ A
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB completes, BB checks

FLOP 6 players, 6 SB
6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

it goes bet, call, call, raise and then I'm up, on the button. I have top pair and a backdoor flush draw but I can't be too happy. Unable to fold and not willing to coldcall, I 3bet, figuring if I can get the original bettor or one of the callers to fold something like A4 or A5 to 2 cold then I've done something towards winning this hand. So I 3-bet and everyone folds except for the first raiser. Does this make sense thus far?

TURN
2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] it's heads up now and it's checked to me. I check as well. Not too sure why- would hate to be check raised obviously, but also feel like I've got to be behind (but if i'm behind, why did i raise the flop??) I decide to see the river for free

RIVER
5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
It completes no flush draws and there were no real straight draws to be worried about. it's checked to me and what do I do? I check. I'm a pussy and i expect to see A4-A8 - something he couldn't fold but also didnt feel OK betting.

Thoughts? I think the way I played it I should have bet the river. But maybe I should have bet the turn as well? Or maybe I should have folded the flop? I really don't know.

Dave G. · #2 07-20-2005, 10:31 PM

You're getting 5.5:1 when it's to you. You have about 6 outs with your BDFD and twopair / trips outs. So if you take into account implied odds, you can probably continue here, but I don't think you're ahead.

I'm torn between calling and 3-betting. On one hand, if you call, the others will most likely all call too and you're getting good value to improve. If you 3-bet, you might fold out stronger ace hands that could threaten you with redraws. I'm honestly not really sure. I know what I'd do at the table - fold. But I think there might be some value in continuing.

I'd bet the turn and take the free showdown on the river if he lets you. It's likely he does have a bigger ace and you've just clubbed him into submission, so he's calling down.

irishpint · #3 07-20-2005, 10:33 PM

the decision between 3-betting and calling the flop is a bitch, since we're so often told not to cold call 2. and then i'm being bet into on the turn and river as well i'm sure.

Dave G. · #4 07-20-2005, 10:37 PM

Yeah, that's true. That looks like a good argument for 3-betting. You spend an extra SB here to save a BB on the turn or river.

TomBrooks · #5 07-20-2005, 10:56 PM

A value bet on the river looks OK since you checked through the turn and Villian didn't bet out the river.

albedoa · #6 07-20-2005, 11:03 PM

It looks to me like Villain really did have a good piece of the flop, but then got scared of the straight on the river when you both saw it for free.

EDIT: Changing my guess to KQo.

shadow29 · #7 07-20-2005, 11:18 PM

Bet the turn and river.

Not sure about the flop. Definetly not fold though.

ubercuber · #8 07-20-2005, 11:27 PM

I'm a rookie but I think it's fold or raise on the Flop and I would have folded, but I like your play better! I take that free card on the Turn and take a shot at the River, folding to a raise. I am thinking what would he limp in with and raise on the Flop...KQo sounds good but the raise is questionable. KTo for one BB.

Please assault my thinking and help me improve it! (w/o losing sight of the original post)

irishpint · #9 07-21-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a rookie but I think it's fold or raise on the Flop and I would have folded, but I like your play better! I take that free card on the Turn and take a shot at the River, folding to a raise. I am thinking what would he limp in with and raise on the Flop...KQo sounds good but the raise is questionable. KTo for one BB.

Please assault my thinking and help me improve it! (w/o losing sight of the original post)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you're spot on- he had KTo. A natural maybe? High stakes, now!

irishpint · #10 07-21-2005, 12:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn and river.

Not sure about the flop. Definetly not fold though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see calling a river bet, and I feel now like I SHOULD have bet the river. But I dont see why I'd bet the turn if it's checked to me- part of my reason for raising was to get
1. free card, since if im ahead ill likely stay there and if i'm behind i need to spike a 3 or pick up a draw (or if he has 2 pair w/out ace i could use another ace or something)
2. Show it down as cheaply as possible. if he caps the flop and leads the turn, i'm folding. This way I saved 1/2 a BB (even if I lost a whole BB on the river)

In fact, had I check/called the whole way I'd be rich! Actually I feel like my 3bet MUST have knocked out a weak ace(A3-A5)- it went bet call call before the raise, what were they betting/calling with on a drawless board?