Folding bottom full on river

[Yeti]

Oops, sorry, totally misread it.

For some reason I thought there had been one MP limper. Do you like the raise in this situation?

FWIW, now I've read it, I'd make it 60, which you probably hate as well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[StoneAge]

maybe I wasn't clear- if a blank hit the turn I would bet big to destroy flush draw odds, but possibly get a bad call anyway.

What happened was, I filled up, so, even though a flush draw might call a big bet, I bet smaller knowing a flush draw would be almost guarenteed to call, drawing dead.

My read on the flop was that playerA had an A and maybe player B was possibly drawing or had a pocket pair and wanted to take one off- he could have had an A also. On the turn I bet small because I didn't want to lose anyone drawing dead or to just three outs- to fill up their trip As- neither of these hands are getting enough to call anything close to 6-1. I wanted to just whitle down player B's stack if he had a calling hand, so that he would have so little on the river that he would have to call with almost any hand that had a chance. Unfortunately, he folded

You are right that I was trying to trap the flush draw, but at the river I re-evaluated and decided that Player A was not on the flush draw. I did fold, I will reply to this post later as to if I still think it was a good fold.

Thanks for your replies imperious

[lapoker17]

If this was an attempt to pick off a habitual blind stealer, then maybe it's OK, but to be honest, unless the blinds are big enough to matter 25-50 for exapmle, then I'm not all that interested in protecting a few dollars in dead money. The limper up front is the primary reason I don't like it - You could easily be facing more raising when it comes back to you, and I'd rather see a flop w 88 out of position.

That said, I have a good friend, who is a successful pro, and reraises out of the blinds with connectors and other semi-trash knowing that when he hits he will often stack someone. 88 is just not the kind of hand I'm making that play with.

[arkose]

and then when you play against someone like me or anyone else with half a brain, they'll notice that you raise out of the blinds a little too often to always have AA/KK...and they'll take the pot away from you on the flop or the turn because at least one overcard will hit...or a flush...or something...

this is especially true *with* deep stacks...when its a lot more dangerous to keep playing your hand out of position in the face of strength....if you had smaller stacks, then its not so bad to raise/reraise big out of the blinds and go all-in or virtually all-in on the flop, so you don't get messed with

[arkose]

you have to think in terms of implied odds as well as pot odds...if one of your opponents has KQc, then he is making the correct play by calling...even if the pot was laying only 2 to 1, it would be an easy call because of implied odds.....you want to bet such that your opponents make mistakes; ie. bet bigger and hope that a flush draw calls...you sooner you get someone to commit chips to a draw, the harder it will be for them to lay the hand down on a later street when it becomes even more expensive

this should be especially true if you are on a short bankroll, which is what you stated...why give someone with a draw the correct odds to call when you can't afford to lose a big pot

the same applies for the turn.....why, after seeing two people call you, would you bet so small? anyone with an ace will have a decent number of outs to draw to for a bigger hand than yours (the case A, 3 outs for the 9, and 3 outs for their kicker)..... another way to look at this situation is this: the 2nd ace is either a scare card and your opponents won't put another cent in the pot, or its the exact opposite and you will get big action from that card.....come out swinging and get someone pot-committed...the pot is a very good size now, and you can't afford to lose it to someone with 7 outs to a better boat.


i can appreciate why you played the hand the way you did, even if i disagree with how you played it...the bottom line is that slowplaying a vulnerable set can be a very bad move with deep stacks....i would be making completely different comments if the flop had been something like A83r or some such thing; in that case, a free or cheap card would be relatively safe on the flop....the flop you played with had too many straight/flush/high card outs for you to get tricky with it, especially with deep stacks

[StoneAge]

I folded the hand and she felt compelled to show me her A9h. I had felt good about my read before she showed her hand and obviously really good after. However, I talked to her at the end of the session and asked her why she made such a big raise and she said "Usually the people I play with would call me with any A"- so this definitely made me wonder if she would have made the same bet with a flush. After that and the comments of the folks on the forum, I am not as happy about the fold.

I also think that I should have bet more on the flop and the turn.

I do think that one of my leaks in NL is giving people too much credit for knowing how to play.

Thanks for everyones comments

[arkose]

i think that's one of the reasons you have to call...the fact that you acted weak throughout the hand widens the range of hands that someone will raise you with on the river