Dealing River Twice?

[Rob Blackburn]

I had a murderous night playing 2/5 PL, 5 times I had put opponent or was all-in myself with the best of it, preflop/flop and was sucked out all 5 times.

At this "private" room they allow a deal it twice agreement, is there any point I should agree to deal twice?

I always refuse, but as I thought about all the beats I wondered if there is a specific number of outs where I should make this deal?

Something maybe like 10 or more outs?

Any thoughts are welcomed.

[Dynasty]

I think it's just a bankroll and variance tolerance issue. When you've got the better hand, it's not going to be higher EV to run the cards twice or more. Tommy Angelo may be able to provide some good insight.

I flopped top set against Tommy's middle set on Friday night in an Omaha High game and got all-in on the flop. He then busted me when the turn and river gave him a runner-runner straight. I had not desire to run the cards more than once.

[Tommy Angelo]

"He then busted me when the turn and river gave him a runner-runner straight."

Not that it matters, especially since set against set with that board and betting was enough to make the hand a no-brainer, but I flopped an open-ender. I had 8655 and the flop was 7-5-x. It happened fast enough that I was too busy stomaching the set under set to notice right away that I had a straight draw too, and that why I didn't turn over the 8 and 6 until halfway between the turn and river. It was a unintentional slowroll, to not show my draw at the same time as the set. The straight looked like a runner runner because the turn was an 8 and the river was a 9.

As to dealing the river twice, forget whatever it was I was trying to get across. It had to do with the flawed notion that hitting one of your outs on one board reduces your outs on the second board such that taking the deal is bad. It's not. It's absolutely fair no matter how many boards you run. Which is obvious enough or it wouldn't be popular in Nevada.

Tommy

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
It had to do with the flawed notion that hitting one of your outs on one board reduces your outs on the second board such that taking the deal is bad. It's not. It's absolutely fair no matter how many boards you run. Which is obvious enough or it wouldn't be popular in Nevada.

Tommy

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am misinterpreting running multiple boards. For example, one player has KK vs JJ and a board of J 8 5 K with one card to come. JJ has one out. If you run the board 3 times for best out of three, then JJ can't win? So either I am misinterpreting and the cards get put back in the deck for the multiple runs, or your statement is incorrect based on this trivial example.

[Louie Landale]

It does not change your EV but it DOES reduce your varience; in fact drastically. A "deal it twice" policy MAY have some influence on your game selection vis-a-vis your bankroll yaddy yaddy.

But reducing your varience can and does have a BIG effect on the current game. If you are in for $500 and that's all you have right now and the game is good; going bust is a BAD thing because you have to go home and miss whatever EV you WOULD have gained when you stay. So if you are short on cash in a good game you should routinely deal it twice.

There is also some benefit to not busting the live guy. If you spit the deal-it-twice you still have a shot at his money.

In these home games you need to keep the peace. If everyone pretty much wants to deal-it-twice you should also.

- Louie

[Ed Miller]

If you run the board 3 times for best out of three, then JJ can't win?

It's not winner-take-all... the whole point is that you split the pot based on who wins how many times. So in your example, the jacks has three times the chance to spike, but wins only one-third of the pot when he does.

[Philuva]

Usually you run it twice after the flop. so both the turn and river card are dealt twice. And if you win twice, you win the whole pot. If one wins once and the other once, you split the pot.

Really it is just used to reduce variance in big pots. Usually in Pot Limit Omaha, with given all the draws sometimes players can be near 50% favorites with a "made" hand vs/ a drawing hand. But you could apply the same thing to any game, not just pot limit omaha.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I was too busy stomaching the set under set to notice right away that I had a straight draw too, and that why I didn't turn over the 8 and 6 until halfway between the turn and river...The straight looked like a runner runner because the turn was an 8 and the river was a 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was too busy stomaching losing with top set to notice anything about how you made the straight. My daze didn't wear off for about 15 seconds.