$22: ITM with AKs and > 10BB

Costanza · #1 10-02-2005, 10:25 PM

Interested to know if you would raise or just push preflop as well as thoughts on the turn. If I had reads at the time I don't remember them now.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) converter

Hero (t2580)
SB (t1670)
BB (t3750)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t800, 1 fold, BB calls t600.

Flop: (t1700) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t2950 (All-In), Hero calls t1780 (All-In).

Shilly · #2 10-02-2005, 10:26 PM

I'd almost definitely push preflop.

I insta-call the flop push, too.

niquewon · #3 10-02-2005, 10:31 PM

I think raising and all in are both decent options here, depending on table texture. If you have been very aggressive up to this point I'd prefer pushing because many times you'll get a call from a weaker ace or king. The all in call on the flop looks standard.

Costanza · #4 10-02-2005, 10:46 PM

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I think raising and all in are both decent options here, depending on table texture. If you have been very aggressive up to this point I'd prefer pushing because many times you'll get a call from a weaker ace or king. The all in call on the flop looks standard.

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I went back and looked. SB lost the previous hand to me when I pushed K6s from the SB and he called from BB with K5o. Does this change anything?

pergesu · #5 10-02-2005, 10:50 PM

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I think raising and all in are both decent options here, depending on table texture. If you have been very aggressive up to this point I'd prefer pushing because many times you'll get a call from a weaker ace or king. The all in call on the flop looks standard.

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I went back and looked. SB lost the previous hand to me when I pushed K6s from the SB and he called from BB with K5o. Does this change anything?

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Yeah, the looser he is, the better a push is for you. Given that he is evidently a loose caller, I'd be more inclined to open push this and hope for a call.

splashpot · #6 10-02-2005, 10:33 PM

I think the blinds are too small to push preflop. The flop is borderline, but I'd call.

gumpzilla · #7 10-02-2005, 10:37 PM

I'm not averse to raising PF with your stack in this situation, but I'd raise to 500, not 800. You're putting in an awful lot of stack, which takes away most of the point of raising instead of pushing.

The flop, now that you've gotten to it in this fashion, is an easy call in my opinion, though I'm not sure what ICM says. I think you will usually find yourself with 15 outs twice here, and getting 2:1 I think you really should take it.

pergesu · #8 10-02-2005, 10:40 PM

The preflop raise is too big, imo. I'd either pop it to 500 or just push preflop. Your raise puts you in a position where you basically have to call a flop push from your opponent. Fortunately here you have a flush draw to boot so it's a no-brainer.

Before you make any play, always consider what actions you'll want to take on later streets. Here if you're called, the pot will match your remaining stack...which isn't exactly the position you want to be in. If you make a smaller raise preflop, you can play the hand much more easily and profitably postflop.

Costanza · #9 10-02-2005, 11:08 PM

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The preflop raise is too big, imo.

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That's what I thought my mistake was. If I'm just trying to take the blinds, I should push. After all, if either of them push PF I'm calling here, so why not just push to begin with?

However, I shouldn't mind seeing a flop. I'll have position and he'll to have to make a tough decision. If he does go ahead and push it would be easier to dump the hand on a whiffed flop if the pot weren't so big.

Not that I would have folded here anyway: I thought had had at least 12 and probably 15 outs twice, and also felt there was at least a small chance I had the best hand.

Am I starting to get it?

pergesu · #10 10-02-2005, 11:32 PM

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The preflop raise is too big, imo.

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That's what I thought my mistake was. If I'm just trying to take the blinds, I should push. After all, if either of them push PF I'm calling here, so why not just push to begin with?

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With a hand this strong, blinds this big, and three-handed, I'd want to get my money in preflop if at all possible. If one or both of the players will call you with a wide range of hands (I think you mentioned that SB called with K5o, which is top 35%), then I'd just shove and hope for a call. If they're playing tighter I would just raise and take it from there.

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However, I shouldn't mind seeing a flop. I'll have position and he'll to have to make a tough decision. If he does go ahead and push it would be easier to dump the hand on a whiffed flop if the pot weren't so big.

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Exactly. The way you played it, you're getting 2-1 on a flop push on his part. So basically it'd have to be a particularly horrendous flop, like Q92 all hearts, for you to fold it. You don't leave yourself with any options, and you have no room to utilize your skill advantage.

Your raise is in the sour spot as far as creating pot size goes. The only way I would make a raise that big is I was almost certain my opponents would shove over the top with a wide range of hands, but wouldn't call a push. But if they're willing to shove over a t600 raise, they're probably willing to shove over a t300 raise as well. The times they opt to call your t300 raise allows you to get away from bad flops, or stack them on good flops.

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Am I starting to get it?

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I think so, but it's not like I'm so great at this game either [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]