Did I give this pot away?

[all_aces]

Same game as "re-raise the turn?" For those who haven't read that one, nobody really gets very far out of line here. I'm in the BB with

3h 5h

and the entire world limps to me. Flop comes

8h 6s 2h

I check, there's a bet, a raise, a re-raise, a re-reraise, and a re-rereraise. The cap is $50 for some reason here preflop and on the flop, then moves to 'normal' betting structure for the turn and river rounds.

I consider laying this hand down. I think I'm drawing dead. A four gives me the idiot end of a straight against a possible 57 out there, and a heart gives me a baby flush.

But I call anyways. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I think 6 or 7 of us see the turn:

6h [8h 6s 2h]

I check. Anyone bet here? Anyone still in this hand?

Results to follow....

[DaBartman]

The only way I'm not done with it is if EVERY single other player in the pot had their 5150 papers laid out for me to confirm, then it's still close. Yikes!

[Manzanita]

All_Aces,

Since nobody really gets very far out of line here then I think that you have an easy fold on the flop. Since you have no hand at this point and your draws are not to the nuts I can see no reason to continue.

-- Manzanita

[budman]

I don't think you gave this pot away. Assuming any of your opponents have a good heart in their hand, you are not going to chase them out.

If you bet into me and I were after you with a good heart, I would raise you and check down the river if I missed.

If you bet into me and I were after you with the nut heart, I would call and bet or raise on the river.

The only way betting could make sense would be if your opponents were on straight draws. From your comments it does not seem if your opponents are wild or would bluff into this pot.

I think your check was proper and you could not have won this pot unless a blank hit the river.

[all_aces]

I checked my baby flush, it gets checked to MP who bets but doesn't like it very much, and nobody raises. In fact, we lose a few players. So when it gets back to me, I call, because I think I might actually have a shot at this pot. 4 of us see the river:

6c [6h 8h 6s 2h]

Well that certainly does it for me. Guy who bet the turn bets with more confidence now, gets one caller, of course I fold. He shows pocket 10's and drags the pot.

I told the guy to the right of me, the SB who wasn't in the hand, what I had--quietly. He very loudly said "You turned a flush? You shoulda bet out on the turn! You let him in...." And since nobody said "Oh I had a bigger flush..." (and it was that kinda table), I really think I was ahead on the turn.

Thanks for the feedback, it was kind of a bizzare hand that I wouldn't have given much thought, if not for SB's comments.

[bernie]

"I call, because I think I might actually have a shot at this pot."

this is a terrible reason for just calling. if you really thought you had a shot at it, you raise. you make any higher flush card pay for that river.

sure, he may have called your raise and sucked out anyways, but it's terrible to let him do that like that. if someone reraises you on the turn, THEN you can think about a higher flush being more possible.

ugh...

b

[all_aces]

Sooo..... you would have bet out on the turn? If, let's say, you called on the flop? Or would you check, hoping to raise? Personally, I think betting out on the turn or folding on the flop are the right plays here.

I don't post hands I play correctly here... who cares about those? I make two mistakes in a night, then I post them here to make sure they were mistakes. Thanks again.

[Louie Landale]

There aren't enough good hands available for 5 different players to bet and raise on that flop. Therefore, your evaluation that "nobody gets far out of line" is incorrect. At least 3 of them are, either by failing to raise with their big pairs before the flop or raising with their cheese on the flop.

Bet this one out on the flop.

But you checked. Your flop conserns are realistic. Never-the-less you are getting 6:1 for your 1.6:1? squirrely draw. That means your hand only as to win about 1/3 of the time you make it to make money, even taking into account the fact that you have bad implied odds. Call, deal with your puckered underpants later.

On the turn... Lets see, you are worried about having the best hand and don't want to bet what's probably a loser. That's a realistic consern. Never-the-less [1] If you have the best hand you can expect around 5 calls, so you only need the best hand one time in 6 to make this a "bet for value". [2] By calling the cap and then betting out you are pretty much guaranteeing that nobody is going to raise you off your hand, since its pretty darn obvious what you have. They will call, but not get out of line. If you check, you CAN get blown off your hand. Reason [2] is worth a LOT more than reason [1].

Bet this one out on the turn, again deal with ... later. Figure to call all future single bets and fold to any double bets. Check-raising is an option depending on who bets.

Generally: there are a lot more cheese hands that bad players can get out of line with than there are quality hands that beat flushes. Just because a table of your clones would guarantee that someone has a big flush or a set doesn't mean that THIS table has one.

- Louie

You checked/call because you thought you have a shot, right? So, what's wrong with betting out instead? If raised then you may have to think twice and fold then. I'm with bernie here. Flush over flush is a rarer occurrence than set over set. Looks like you had the best hand on the turn.

[Georgia Peach]

I think I've seen Dynasty's comments often enough about being overly concerned about a 2nd flush. When you don't have the nut flush, and especially your low end flush, it's understandable that you worry.

But I think you have to see the hand all the way when you have the flush unless you are absolutely positive a better one exists. The only way to find out is to either bet or call the river. Flushes don't come too often, so stay with them no matter what unless you really believe a better flush is out there.