Divorcing Results

[Rick Nebiolo]

I stopped by the rival card barn to provide aid and comfort to Hero, stuck around $700 in a very live 15/30 holdem game. During a cigarette break I gave the usual “play good, don’t worry about getting even tonight, stay a little on the longer than usual only if the game is good, yada yada yada” pep talk. Anyway, I was satisfied Hero was in a good spot so I left cause it was late and I had worked hard all day.

The next day Hero calls as usual. Eventually I asked how she made out in last night’s game.

“Oh I won $xxx, but let me tell you about a hand” said Hero excitedly.

I already knew this was the “get even and then some” hand. Hero is not going to waste valuable cell phone time on some drab analysis of a tricky poker dilemma.

“I’m in the big blind with A8 offsuit. A steamer raises UTG+1. The “Cold Caller” cold calls and a maniac in the small blind calls.”

That previous evening I had observed the “Cold Caller”. This was a guy who’s folding requirements were infinitely small before the flop and post flop to fold he essentially required no pair, no possible running one card straight, no possible running one card flush, and two undercards to the board. In other words, he was not a guy you can blow out of the pot.

I already assumed Hero called BTF so I asked what kind of steamer was “The Steamer”. In other words, was it a “playing really bad” steamer or a just a “mad because he has been ironed out all night and now playing just a little bit bad” steamer? Apparently it was the latter type.

I asked what kind of maniac was “The Maniac”. Was it a raise UTG with 2-6 suited maniac or a raise UTG with A-6 offsuit semi-maniac? Apparently he was a semi-maniac.

I said, “Against decent opponents you have an easy fold BTF but I guess you can call in this spot – just realize A8 offsuit just doesn’t play well against an early raise out of position even against steamers, cold callers, and semi-maniacs.” But I already knew I was going uphill in this conversation.

Of course Hero brushes this off a bit and continues, “The flop comes 9-8-4 rainbow. The maniac checks so I bet!”

I said I like the bet. I thought if you don’t bet middle pair and an ace overcard into a raiser in Los Angeles this town will chew you up.

“The Steamer raises, the Cold Caller cold calls, and The Maniac re-raises”

I break in despite knowing better. “Don’t tell me you called two bets cold back to you?"

“I’m not going to give it up against these players! Are you kidding me?”

“No, I’m not kidding. Even steamers and semi-maniacs and loosey goosey cold callers can have a hand and this sequence should make you sick inside. You have an absolutely clear fold and it isn’t close.” But I was fighting with results.

“Anyway, The Steamer capped it and we all called. Guess what came on the turn?”

I knew there were only two possibilities. A year ago during a 2+2 get together Andy Fox listened to a similar Hero story with a board of 9-8-x to Hero’s QJ and said “I think a ten is coming.” His choice was obvious, mine wasn’t. Anyway, I guessed ace.

“Wrong. The turn comes an offsuit eight. Now The Maniac bets out of the small blind. What would you do?”

She still wouldn’t concede that The Maniac was really a semi-maniac. I said raising was OK since it was OK and I was 100% sure Hero raised. Sometimes you just need to go along to get along.

“I did raise. Now The Steamer re-raises, the Cold Caller cold calls, the Maniac calls two more bets, so I cap. Everybody called.”

“Did you ever consider that you might be behind?” I asked hopefully.

“But these were steamers, cold callers and maniacs!”

Anyway, why not cap I thought? After all it is Los Angeles.

“OK, you capped. Let me guess the river. It was an…”

“An eight!” Hero interrupted. “The Maniac checked so I checked!”

Somehow I managed to say I sort of liked the check.

“The Steamer bet, the Cold Caller cold called, the Maniac called, so what do you think I did?” asked Hero.

“Uh, you checkraised??” I answered hopefully.

“Of course I checkraised you dummy. The Steamer thought and thought and then just called. The Cold Caller called of course. Now The Maniac gets out of his seat, holds up a pair of fours and screams “I want to see all hands” before he folds. Of course I show my quads, The Maniac shows pocket nines, and the Cold Caller had a pair of sevens.”

It was time to divorce results.

“Look, I now know you were almost drawing dead against two sets on the flop but that isn’t why I hated your cold call of two raises on the flop. I hated it because way more often then not you are going to be screwed in that spot and you should be willing to give it up after betting once.”

“Why don’t you let the forum decide how I played this hand?” was Hero’s final word on the subject.

Well, we all know you can marry results, but is a fair divorce possible?

Regards,

Rick

[rtrombone]

[Ulysses]

[Ed S.]

Well once she gets to the turn I think she is locked in the hand and she is going no where. But your sentiments about preflop play and having it 2 bets to her on the flop. I agree with you. Even crazies and maniacs will have hands. I just think she wanted to see the flop with an ok hand vs these kinds of players and she definitely wanted to see the turn. Well it wasn't cheap and probably should have folded. But she got there in her mind on the turn and was locked in. Little did she know she was still behind until the river.


Ed S.

[Ulysses]

Worst player in the world limps in. I raise in CO w/ ATs. Solid guy on the button cold-calls. Blinds fold and limper calls.

Flop is QT5 w/ 2 of some suit.

Worst player bets. I call. Solid player calls.

Turn is (QT5)T

Worst player bets. I raise. Solid player cold-calls. Worst player 3-bets (he is almost all-in). I 4-bet. Solid player folds. Worst player re-raises his last couple of chips. I call.

River is (QT5T)A

Worst player asks me "do you have a full house?" and only then do I realize I rivered him. He had 55. I play goot.

[JimRivett]

Hello Rick,

A year ago during a 2+2 get together Andy Fox listened to a similar Hero story with a board of 9-8-x to Hero’s QJ and said “I think a ten is coming.”

If I remember correctly, Hero picked up the tab for dinner that night, so I'm with her on this one [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

You indicate that there were two flopped sets, did the "cold caller" have pocket 4's not pocket 7's?

Regards, Jim

[Tommy Angelo]

“Why don’t you let the forum decide how I played this hand?” was Hero’s final word on the subject.
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Rick, oh Rick. Rick the most-dedicated-to-the-poker-world floorperson in the world. Rick the admirably patience and forever gracious player. Rick the lucky dog who has Hero daily in his life. Rick, oh Rick.

Some guys try to put out forest fires. Other guys just look at 'em and go wow. It might be time for you to switch sides. :-)


Tommy

[DaBartman]

Geez Rick, don't you ever go to bed? Great post. No comment. Los Angeles says it all.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Jim,

Yeah, you were there as was Tommy Angelo, Mike I. and Andy Fox.

The UTG+1 Steamer had the pair of nines for a flopped top set, the extremely loose Cold Caller had a pair of sevens for a flopped underpair, and the (semi) Maniac in the small blind had a pair of fours for a flopped bottom set. I'd double check my story but the forum is so slooow today! They may be in the middle of their upgrade (coming in July - it is July!) so it was a great time for me to load in a long post - NOT! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Anyway, divorce results and divorce any influence on your thinking predicated on the fact you got a free meal bought by Hero. Do you still think Hero's flop play was correct?

Regards,

Rick

[bruce]

That's why I never like to play small set and bottum fullhouses. It comes runner runner too often for my
liking. Ha ha ha!