Playing with the only solid player in LA

Gabe · #1 07-22-2003, 04:17 AM

Hollywood Park 20/40. 4 limp. I limp, on button, with 8[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]. SB completes. Byron raises in BB. For those you outside the LA area, Byron doesn’t play junk. He doesn’t really get out of line. I cannot recall him ever raising, a big field, out of the blinds with a hand like KQs or 88.
Flop is A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img].
Byron bets. Middle position calls. Everyone else folds. I reluctantly call. It is very possible I’m drawing dead.
Turn is A[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img].
Maybe I can fold now. Wait Byron checks, MP checks. What should I do?

Ed Miller · #2 07-22-2003, 05:53 AM

Hehe... I guess you bet. If you get checkraised, then I think you lay down. If you get called, then I think you check the river if your flush gets there... maybe you bet if you don't get there.

Rick Nebiolo · #3 07-22-2003, 05:58 AM

Gabe,

Bet but fold to a checkraise from any spot. It seems that Byron is either full or he slowed down with a big pair (KK or QQ) once he had two callers and the board paired twice. A solid player will often lay down these pairs is this spot.

If you are called after your bet it will be futile to bluff your misses on the river. A big pair calling once will call the river too.

Regards,

Rick

PS Is this Byron about 45, glasses, balding, nice guy, kind of soft spoken who moved up from 6/12 only about three years ago?

rtrombone · #4 07-22-2003, 06:08 AM

You know what, it seems like every time I bet in a situation like this, I get check-raised. What I would do depends on my perception of the guy in the middle. Is he the type who would just call with an ace and then check it at the turn, fearing that you have a jack? I know players like this who play very carefully but will call you down here.

I would have raised the flop. Am I the only one who would have done this?

Chris Nichelson · #5 07-22-2003, 07:15 AM

You should bet and if raised or called throw your hand away/shut down even if you make your hand.

Philuva · #6 07-22-2003, 10:03 AM

Bet. If check-raised, I would fold.

If only Byron calls, I would bet the river for value if I make my flush. I think KK or QQ are most likely.

If only the middle guy calls. I would check the river. Seems like he might have a J that he slowplayed on the flop and now thinks is counterfeited.

If both players call, I would check the river no matter what.

EasyGoer · #7 07-22-2003, 10:03 AM

Check. And be thankful for the free card.

andyfox · #8 07-22-2003, 01:24 PM

Would Byron bet pocket kings or queens into a big field with that flop? Sure doesn't seem likely. Still, it's hard to resist bluffing here when they both check, there's $340 in the pot. MP is most likely on a draw, so a bet might get the job done.

I'd invest the $40. If Byron calls, I'm done with it, even if I make my hand. If MP calls, I'd bet behind his river check.

DaBartman · #9 07-22-2003, 04:18 PM

Ole' Solid Byron has himself an ace and thinks it may be a split pot. So, he checks trying to get the non-ace hand to bet or call the other ace so there will be a few more dead bets in the pot when he splits it. Figures he has nothing to lose and may gain by this play. Just a different way of looking at this.

Bolivia · #10 07-22-2003, 08:26 PM

It is important to know two things in this situation, in order to effectively play this hand. a.) what is his image of you?? and b.) Is Byron a savvy, aggressive player, or a strictly just a tight prudent player??

First off, it's easy to assume that MP is on somekind of a draw, otherwise you would have gotten some friction on the flop.

If you just sat down and Byron doesn't have much of an idea for how you're playing at the moment, or maybe he doesn't necessarily respect your bets, I would just check the turn and call/bet the river if a flush hits (unless he's a savvy player - see below).

However if you've been showing Byron strong play and prudent decisions over the last few or hours (or last number of sessions), I would do the following:

Scenario 1: Byron as a tight predictable player - I imagine he would check the turn and check river if you check behind him on the turn while probably all the time holding KK's or QQ's (being fixated on the weakness of his hand, the strength of the board, and the fact that he believes it is likely you have something if you called behind him on the flop). If he's a really weak tight player he might be inclined to check the flop, even still many of them would often bet KK's and QQ's to see where they're at. This seems like it may be a good steal situation. If this is the case, I would bet the turn and river (as long as the river doesn't appear to make MP's draw).

Scenario 2: Byron as a strong, savvy player - Against 3 other players he would probably bet the flop with an Ace, a Jack, QQ's, or KK's to see where he's at. To check/call or check/fold would be way to weak. He's very aware that you both could be holding something behind him but has narrowed it to most likely to being draws (knowing that either of you would probably raise an ace or a jack on the flop to make the flushes' pay and find out where your at) and realizes that you're probably going to muck to any bet on the turn because of the board and because he's aware of how you percieve him (meaning he knows you know that he has probably has got the goods). So he knows that the only way he can get any extra money out of you is to check the turn and hope you either catch something on the river or bluff. Given that he knows you would raise an Ace or a Jack on the flop, he would probably value bet KK's and QQ's on the turn. So, if he's a smart player this situation sounds like a trap. Given that, check the turn, check/call the river if you're flush hits.