20-40 Taj Hand...Time to get creative or do you have to hit?

[Jeffage]

I played this hand in a very good 20-40 game at the Taj and thought it was somewhat interesting. I have 6h4h in the BB. 3 people limp, and the SB (a very loose aggressive but also somewhat tricky player) raises. He could have any two suited or a big hand, he likes to pump the pot preflop. I call, limpers call. 5 players, $200 pot. The flop comes 9h 3d 10s giving me nothing, but it gets checked around. The turn is the Qh giving me a 4flush. It gets checked to me and I fire in $40 in an effort to win right there. It gets folded around to the aggressive SB who now checkraises. This seems suspect to me...one, if you're going for a checkraise on the flop and miss you'd usually lead the turn...same as if you hit the Queen in your hand. This player is quite tricky and capable of sensing I'm trying to steal and putting in a raise to resteal since everyone folded. He could of course have a hand but the pattern seems bizarre. Would anyone take it to $120 against this player (who could lay down a better hand potentiall). Or is this a spot where you need to hit so you should just call and fold to a riv bet if you miss. I have a somewhat tight image and a turn reraise may get him to fold a big pair. What do you think and if you advocate raising, how often would you do it in this spot. Comments appreciated...results later.

Jeff

[Ector]

Most players would bet the flop with any hand after they raise. Wouldnt that indicate that he has a big hand, like a set or so? What hand could he possibly have raised with that he didnt want to bet on that flop unless he hit the flop real hard? Maybe he had KJ, decided not to bet the flop and then on turn hoped to trap somebody who hit the Q. I´d say he has a set on the flop or less likely KJ or 2 hearts. Anyway, I would call here and fold to a riverbet if i didnt hit, but then again, im a softie.

[Jeffage]

"Most players would bet the flop with any hand after they raise. Wouldnt that indicate that he has a big hand, like a set or so?"

I agree in some ways but this particular player does many things that defy logic including raising out of position and then checking with a big hand sometimes, sometimes not...he is a tough player to typecast.

Jeff

[DaBartman]

The solution here was to muck that piece of cheese pre-flop.

[Jeffage]

I disagree. I think the call is fine out of the BB when the loose SB raises in a multiway pot...if the hand is offsuit I muck. In HPFAP, S&M say you can defend your BB with 54s but fold 54o because the 54s has two ways to win...flush or straight. Obviously, I'm not defending my BB to a legit UTG raise and one caller but I felt this scenario was different though I will admit the call may be a tad loose. I respect your advice however and would like to hear your thoughts on the rest of the hand.

Thanks,
Jeff

[MrHeadsUp]

[rtrombone]

I agree that the turn check-raise is suspicious. AQ or any set would have bet the turn for fear of it getting checked through again. A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] or A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] would likely also have bet after picking up so many outs.

He's probably raising because he thinks you have nothing. The problem is that he's right; unless you improve you will lose to ace-high in a showdown. If he's good, 3-betting the turn won't necessarily change his read. He may still be willing to show down with ace high.

Don't 3-bet the turn. It seems like whenever I try this stunt I just cost myself more money because I never get there. If you're going to put a play on him, you may want to raise the river or bet if checked to. I fear you will frequently still get called when you do this, though. If a non-heart 6 or 4 falls at the river, definitely call or bet if checked to.

[skp]

This is a very interesting hand but as for analysis, I think you have already said what needs to be said.

Whether or not you 3 bet is largely a function of the player in question.

In any event, I really like your thinking here. It doesn't matter what you did or if it worked but just to round out the picture, I look forward to the results :-)

BTW, in response to the other poster's comment about the preflop call..well, I think it's a gimme call.

[anatta]

Not only do you think he is capable of a resteal raise, but you think he is capable of folding a big pair. I think you should raise it up here. I am guessing he only has to fold 15-20% of the time for your raise to show a profit.

[Shiva]

Your level of thinking on this hand is impressive. What play do you make on the river if you miss... Sounds like he's got a good read on your play here and put you on the heart draw. Pre-flop no-brainer call.