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#12
03-16-2004, 05:16 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
This is hold'em, not Cincinnatti, right? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
I would not have given the free card on the turn, but it looks like it gained you an extra bet on the river, so it worked out okay. However, if a blank hits on the river, you lose one big bet by checking the turn. If another flush card gets there (that doesn't pair the board), you will hate it when the pocket 7's w/ the 7 of clubs takes down a monster pot. I would have bet the turn, called a raise, and called any non-club non-pair river. After checking the turn, I would have raised any non-club river, and raised and reraised any paired river. I would stop at six bets. 
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#13
03-16-2004, 05:53 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Josie "The Outlaw" Wales. A set shouldn't be played like the nuts with a flush on board. [/ QUOTE ] Betting out when checked to isn't playing a hand like the nuts. Bet out, you have a great hand. You can't give anyone credit for a flush until they raise, and even then I'd just call. If someone else raised the turn, and if hero didn't fill up on the river, what's the move here? I'd lean to check-call.
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#14
03-16-2004, 06:16 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
Do you need the nuts to bet the turn?
No, but I usually don't bet unless I think I'm winning or have a reasonable chance of stealing the pot. If the 4th suited card comes on the river you will be kicking yourself. No, I'll be folding.
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#15
03-16-2004, 06:31 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
After checking the turn, I would have raised any non-club river, and raised and reraised any paired river.
When he bet the river after checking the turn, I gave him fair chance of holding a flush (and having missed a checkraise on the turn), a tiny chance of holding a straight (and having been scared on the turn), and a very good chance of having a flopped set that turned into a full house on the river. I called his river reraise, and he stood up and tabled 66 for a higher boat. I mucked without a word. Someone asked that my hand be shown down, and it was. In retrospect, raising may have been a bad play. I could have gotten an overcall from the preflop raiser had I flat called the river, and I didn't want face a third bet from the guy in the middle.
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#16
03-16-2004, 06:40 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
Sometimes you make a good hand and get beat by a better one. I don't think you did anything that horrible here, other than running into a bigger set [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#17
03-16-2004, 10:37 PM
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Re: who takes the free card?
[ QUOTE ]
Monster? Middle set with a flush on the board? Not that he shouldnt bet it....Just not because its a monster JW [/ QUOTE ] Three-flush or no three-flush, middle set is still a monster. A small full house is a monster, the nut flush is a monster, top, middle and bottom set are all monsters. None of them are invincible but that doesn't change the fact that they are monster hands that need to be bet (unless there is a staggeringly obvious beat on the board). SpaceAce
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#18
03-16-2004, 10:39 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Josie "The Outlaw" Wales. A set shouldn't be played like the nuts with a flush on board. I checked. I sometimes bet in that spot, but the guy who capped the flop loves to checkraise and knows I'm really aggressive. The river paired the jack on board. PFR checked, 2nd limper bet. I raised, PFR folded, 2nd limper 3-bet. Your play. [/ QUOTE ] You're free to agree with whoever you please but if you don't bet here you are giving money away. It's that simple. SpaceAce
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#19
03-16-2004, 11:32 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
The only way not betting the turn is right is if you are absolutely sure you are up against a higher set. There are mistakes that can cost you a bet or two and there are mistakes that can cost you an entire pot. A mistake that costs a bet or two is bad, a mistake that costs you a entire pot is a catastrophe. Not betting the the turn is that type of mistake.
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#20
03-17-2004, 04:49 PM
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Re: who goes back for more?
if you don't bet (the turn) you are giving money away. It's that simple.
My main opponent in the hand is loose preflop, but he's not an idiot. What do you think he capped the flop with? I have played against him quite a bit, and I was 99% sure it's 66, 22, or the nut flush draw. On the turn, I was only beating one of those hands (not including the one that was mathematically more likely to be out against me). So I checked. It's not that I didn't have an excuse to bet. I was drawing to beat a flush (if someone had one), I had position, etc. I just don't think a bet is mandatory in this spot.
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