Having a hard time laying down my high pocket pairs twice

[Brian]

Party 5/10 ring. Both hands take place at the same table, and the table is loose and moderately aggressive.

Hand #1: I am dealt Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in EP and raise. MP and Button cold-call, SB folds, BB calls. 4 to the Flop, 4bb.

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet, everyone calls. 4 to the Turn, 6bb.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks, I bet, only Button calls. 2 to the River, 8bb.

River: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, Button raises, I call.



Hand #2: I am dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB. MP opens with a raise, it's folded to me and I re-raise, BB folds, and MP calls. 2 to the Flop, 3.5bb.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, MP calls. 2 to the River, 4.5bb.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, MP raises. Your move?

Results later.

-Brian

[lil']

I call in hand 1 and fold on hand 2.

[novamob]

I agree. You know you are beat in hand 1, but you have to call at that point IMO. (Unless you think he may be on a bluff, than reraise his ass).

What could he have in hand 2 that he would cap with? AA (probably), AKs, QQ, or JJ (very unlikey), KK (very very unlikely).

I think one of the hardest things to do is give up the ghost when you have a monster pre-flop that turns into a dog once the board is out.

[Brian]

Hi novamob,

[ QUOTE ]
but you have to call at that point IMO. (Unless you think he may be on a bluff, than reraise his ass).

[/ QUOTE ]

If I think he is on a bluff, then calling is the correct play.

[ QUOTE ]
What could he have in hand 2 that he would cap with?

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't cap pre-Flop.

-Brian

[Solitare]

Why bet the river in hand 1? Seems it is all too likely for the BB to be holding the small cards that could make the straight or 2-pair he is representing. If he is just holding a small pair, why didn't he raise earlier? Seems to me that a check-call is called for.

[Brian]

Hand #1: I called and was shown 33.

Hand #2: I am still not sure what the correct play on this one is. I think it is more player dependent and perhaps table image-dependent, but I get pushed around an awful lot at 5/10, so I decided to call down. He had AJo.

-Brian

[Dynasty]

Showing down your big pocket pairs on dangerous boards is hardly a significant leak. Don't worry about it.

[chesspain]

I agree completely with this.

[JARID]

Brian,

I feel your pain, it sucks for these type of hands to go belly up. However, there are few things you might want to consider.

Hand #1:

Why in the world would you bet that river? This falls under the "only gonna get called/raised if your beat category". Unless he was calling you down with top pair or something, he is clearly on a draw and the 5 clearly helps the draws. Save yourself a bet, take a check down, or check and call behind.

Hand #2:

Lets face it, you are probably beat here too. I'm sure he will show you a monster starting hand of the A10 off variety, but it could be A2 and you're still toast. Maybe he flopped a set. Although, you did indicate the table was aggressive, so if he is one of the aggressive ones and perhaps prone to bluffing you could call down.

Hope that helps-
~J

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Showing down your big pocket pairs on dangerous boards is hardly a significant leak. Don't worry about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

There, I'm glad that somebody else said that.

I show down a lot in heads up situations. A *lot*. I know that it's supposed to be bad poker to do this. That it's supposed to be a leak. The thing is, I don't sense that it's costing me a lot of chips. It might well be making me chips. I'm usually getting pretty good odds on my calldowns, and I catch a lot of bluffs, and failed semibluffs. I deter people from making plays at me going forward. And I learn a lot about what hands people are playing and how they are playing them, which I think is worth quite a bit. This is an information game.

I'm not saying that I'd never lay down a hand such as in case #2. I'm not saying that I never call down out of frustration, which certainly is a leak. But I think the *default* play *should* be to call down when it's heads up, and you hold a strong hand ... I remain skeptical about my opponents until they prove they deserve otherwise.

My long-term showdowns won % is right about at 50%, and I think that's just where it should be.