Bet the river? Call the river? Fold the river?

BugsBunny · #1 03-12-2004, 01:08 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.
I got a small piece, only 2 opponents, I bet and try to take it down right here. I may bet this flop even if I don't have a piece (in this situation)

Turn: (3 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.
Should I have bet this turn? I was actually in check/fold mode here. If only 1 opponent had stayed I may have bet out here instead

River: (3 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero ???
Your move - Bet and fold to a raise, check and call 1 player, check and call both players (I definitely fold if I check and it comes back 2 bets), check and fold

Results to follow

Barry · #2 03-12-2004, 02:01 AM

I'm not a big fan of betting the flop here, but if I thought that I had a good chance of winning right here I might do it on occasion.

When the SB checks the turn, I would fire another shot since one of them might have picked up a flush draw to go with their overcards and you might get another small [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to fold.

OK on the river the flush gets there and you have the worst one and you didn't bet the turn. Will SB and MP call the river with any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Probably so I would check here. If MP bets and the SB calls you fold. If MP bets and SB folds, I would call only if I thought that the MP was likely to bluff the river with no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Ed Miller · #3 03-12-2004, 02:02 AM

I bet pair and nut flush draw on turn. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

fluff · #4 03-12-2004, 02:13 AM

ummmmm.....nut flush draw?

BugsBunny · #5 03-12-2004, 02:20 AM

So your saying you would have bet the turn? And the river I take it?

I hope so, because in reviewing my play I'm *really* not happy with it. I'm normally more aggressive in these situations (only 2 opponents) and not sure why I wasn't here.

Anyway I'll wait a little longer before posting the results. Want to see if anyone else weighs in.

BugsBunny · #6 03-12-2004, 02:21 AM

I guess you didn't see the smiley

chesspain · #7 03-12-2004, 09:16 AM

I would check the river through. In a non-HU pot, most players, especially out of position (i.e. SB), will check through a low one card flush but will call if it is bet. In addition, with the pot so tiny, it is difficult seeing anyone calling this without a flush. Consequently, I think that the last person to act (i.e. MP) is more likely to bet as a bluff or with a pair than he is to call if he does not have at least a flush (re: Gap concept!?).

Or are my assumptions just wrong here?

novamob · #8 03-12-2004, 09:49 AM

I check/fold here. MP may try to bluff and if he does, good for him, he can have the 3 BB.

BugsBunny · #9 03-12-2004, 06:44 PM

Here's the entire hand. Some thoughts/comments follow

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: (3 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB
Main Pot: 5 BB, between SB and MP1. > Pot won by SB (5 BB).

Results:
MP1 shows Tc 9s (one pair, nines).
SB shows 5s 6s (straight, six high).
Outcome: SB wins 5 BB.

I normally play a hand like this more aggressively. In most cases I would bet both the turn and river (against only 2 opponents). My initial bet represented (possibly) a flush draw. On the turn I should have bet out representing a made flush. As things went on the river I should have at least called - with me having the flush there's a 45% chance that neither opponent has one. Especially with the bet coming from the last player to act. So is my hand good here at least 20% of the time? I think so. And betting both the turn and river could get a better (but still small) flush to fold. Betting just the river is unlikely to do this though.

As to why I chickened out here - I had made up my mind that I would check/call one player on the river, but not 2. The small pot was one consideration. The other is that I've been playing just slightly weak-tight lately because I just started playing 3/6, so I'm still a bit hesitant. It's going well so far, although I'm still not comfortable with the blind structure (I'm folding/[not defending] a *lot* more out of the SB. Maybe too much, but we'll see and adjust that as needed.)

Ed Miller · #10 03-12-2004, 08:09 PM

I definitely bet the turn.

You show an immediate profit if your opponents fold 25% of the time. That alone doesn't make a bet correct, but you have potentially lots of outs if behind, have a decent chance to pick up the pot, and might well still have the best hand. I'd have bet the turn for sure.

As for the river play... that changes a lot if you bet the turn. Checking the turn, and then checking and folding on the river probably is not the best way to play the hand, though. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]