PP heads up w/ position

irishpint · #1 08-02-2005, 03:01 PM

I'd seen the villian here make some sneaky moves at the pot before, but dont know how far he'd truely go to put a move on me.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

I thought the lead looked very donkish, so i opted to raise, hoping i could induce a fold, or bet the turn and showdown for free. I dont know if he's capable of making a bluff 3bet on the flop here or not. I thought about popping the turn but figured I was behind here and was just giving away money. Against an unknown or a tricky player, should I have just called down from the flop? Or fold to the Q on the turn?

McGahee · #2 08-02-2005, 03:37 PM

Without a really good read you played it fine.
An alternative line would be to call the flop and raise any turn. Aggressive players have a harder time punching back with nothing or a draw on the expensive streets.
If you were bluffed out of this one, just make a note of him and make sure to fastplay your big hands against him in the future, since he obviously does not respect flop raises.

Henke · #3 08-02-2005, 03:44 PM

I think you played it fine. I played a similar hand yesterday, raised w TT pf, flop came AT6. Villain capped flop+turn, and went all-in when I raised his river bet. He had A6o. I think that you'll more often than not see some Ax that made a two pair with this flop.

@bsolute_luck · #4 08-02-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Without a really good read you played it fine.
An alternative line would be to call the flop and raise any turn. Aggressive players have a harder time punching back with nothing or a draw on the expensive streets.
If you were bluffed out of this one, just make a note of him and make sure to fastplay your big hands against him in the future, since he obviously does not respect flop raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

whew, i'm glad i'm not the only one that thought about this line [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] my only problem was that if he 3-bet, i would have to fold, which i thought there was an Ed Miller post discouraging such lines [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

the reason i don't like the way this was played was because based on the read, there is no way villain is giving you a free card and sounds like he's only slowing down to a cap.

so my 2 lines were in order:
1. call flop. raise any non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn
2. the Queen sux royal butt, but i'd probably call down until that final [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] fell.

Henke · #5 08-02-2005, 03:52 PM

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the ed miller post?

krimson · #6 08-02-2005, 03:56 PM

When it comes back to you after being 3-bet you are getting 1:9.5 with 2 outs and no backdoor draws. This is a bad call if you have no intention of continuing in the hand.

GTSamIAm · #7 08-02-2005, 03:56 PM

I'd fold to the flop 3-bet. You have 2 outs. I would say he has a set, decent to strong ace, or pp 77-JJ.

McGahee · #8 08-02-2005, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

whew, i'm glad i'm not the only one that thought about this line [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] my only problem was that if he 3-bet, i would have to fold, which i thought there was an Ed Miller post discouraging such lines [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think so - you're probably thinking of something else. One of the reasons this play is so effective is that pure bluff 3-bets on the turn are so very very rare, so getting pushed off the best hand really isn't a concern against non-maniacs. Of course if villian is a complete maniac (which I didn't see any indication of in this hand) then calling down every street is probably better.

irishpint · #9 08-02-2005, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold to the flop 3-bet. You have 2 outs. I would say he has a set, decent to strong ace, or pp 77-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would expect most players to play back pf w/ a strong ace or a PP 77<, since my first in raise in CO looks stealy

2+2 Junkie · #10 08-02-2005, 04:01 PM

grunching...
I like the attempt on the raise, but when he 3-bets and leads the turn, you have to fold IMO.