A 3k WSOP NL hand

ohkanada · #1 07-18-2005, 03:25 PM

Hi I played the 3k NL event in the WSOP and had a hand that I wondered what I should have done?

Blinds are 100-200 with ante of 25. I have just been moved to this table and have a stack of 3k or so. This table has all big stacks. We have 350 players left from a starting of 1010.

UTG player (who on a different table Hellmuth called a donkey but I really didn't see any outrageous hands but I only played with the two of them for 45 minutes) makes it 700. Middle position player who has been involved in a few hands calls. Both of these players have 8-12k.

I am in cutoff position and look down and see 77.

Call, raise or fold?

Thanks,
Ken

durron597 · #2 07-18-2005, 03:26 PM

Fold. UTG raise = strength, and your stack is not big enough to try to flop a set. Just fold.

scal78 · #3 07-18-2005, 03:29 PM

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Fold. UTG raise = strength, and your stack is not big enough to try to flop a set. Just fold.

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I agree. I like fold. You are kind of out of position after an UTG raise, and a call. This is the type of hand that's going to get you in trouble and you'd have to represent something other than 77 if you want to take down the pot post-flop.

SossMan · #4 07-18-2005, 03:29 PM

you have a muck.

if you had a slightly smaller, or much larger stack, I can see playing for set value, but I'm not going to make a move against an UTG raiser who hasn't shown me any donky tendancies.

If I'm playing, i'm certainly pushing.

edited to say: I meant that you can play for set value if you have a larger stack. A shorter stack, and you are getting into desparation mode and can push, hoping to be in a coin flip with some dead money in the pot.

ohkanada · #5 07-18-2005, 03:49 PM

The question is with a short stack, is this the time to try to double/triple up? But my other thought was if both of these players have big cards and call, I may be the individual favorite but still an underdog to win the hand. And of course one or both could have an overpair.

Ken

SossMan · #6 07-18-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The question is with a short stack, is this the time to try to double/triple up? But my other thought was if both of these players have big cards and call, I may be the individual favorite but still an underdog to win the hand. And of course one or both could have an overpair.

Ken

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if they both call, you can almost gaurantee that one has an overpair and you are in big trouble.

You have time to wait until you are not in a multiway spot w/ little folding equity where you will likely be a big dog if called.

you are in the tight zone, and you have to respect it. Like I said, a little bigger, and you can get creative. A little smaller and you can start pushing edges like this. With your stack size, you are prohibited from getting too aggressive or too creative.

schwza · #7 07-18-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The question is with a short stack, is this the time to try to double/triple up? But my other thought was if both of these players have big cards and call, I may be the individual favorite but still an underdog to win the hand. And of course one or both could have an overpair.

Ken

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe if they have non-duplicated high cards and both call, you're a chunk under 33%. this is pretty much impossible, but i'm just sayin'.

harrington talks some about the squeeze play - maybe this is a time to try it? personally, i'd fold pretty quickly. i'd push TT and maybe 99.

schwza · #8 07-18-2005, 04:05 PM

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You have time to wait until you are not in a multiway spot w/ little folding equity where you will likely be a big dog if called.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure that's true. the original raiser will have to fairly tight to this raise, and could be openning kind of light. and if the back guy called with a hand like QJs or AJ, he'll be hard pressed to make this call.

SossMan · #9 07-18-2005, 05:01 PM

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i'd push TT and maybe 99.

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what's the difference? It's rare that they would happen to have 88/99/TT and call.

schwza · #10 07-18-2005, 05:14 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
i'd push TT and maybe 99.

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what's the difference? It's rare that they would happen to have 88/99/TT and call.

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sure it's rare, but not impossible. i'd say those are pretty reasonable hands for either player to call with (more so the back guy, as the front guy is less likely to have an intermediate hand, and more likely to fold it).

we're clearly pushing AA and we both agree that 77 is a fold, so there's obviously some dividing line.

what's the smallest pair you push?