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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:02 PM
ryanghall ryanghall is offline
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Default 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

Both Villains are around 24/10/3. Can someone suggest a better line, or is this played properly? I was thinking maybe I should have bet 1/2 pot on flop to induce a raise so I could 3bet all in. Someone said a huge CR on flop would be ok too, but then you have to put them all in even if you miss turn. Tough one. Help!

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 ($192.05)
CO ($124)
Button ($308.60)
SB ($398.65)
Hero ($409)
UTG ($565.20)
UTG+1 ($362.50)
MP1 ($171.40)
MP2 ($1229.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $4, MP3 calls $4, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($26) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $24</font>, UTG folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $24, CO calls $24, Button folds.

Turn: ($98) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $165</font> (putting them both all-in)
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:09 PM
swarm swarm is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

With these stacks I'm checkraising this flop all in every time.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:16 PM
jkkkk jkkkk is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

I don't like effectively pushing the turn here into what could be a made full house or hands that are definitely not folding, I agree with swarm, CR ai on the flop, bigger fold equity + draw potential.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:32 PM
soah soah is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

[ QUOTE ]
With these stacks I'm checkraising this flop all in every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising five times the size of the pot?
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:33 PM
scdavis0 scdavis0 is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

I think a better way to play this turn is to check and figure out what is going on.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:54 PM
FreakDaddy FreakDaddy is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

OOP I like the check/raise with these big draws. It's the optimal (and thought standard line) in these situations. 1) you get more money in and have fold equity 2) you may even get a free card.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:04 PM
swarm swarm is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

Why not soah? I'm a good sized favorite over any pair and practically coinflipping with two pair or a set. Rather get my hand in as the favorite and avoid a difficult turn. You take this down right then and there more often than not.

Let's say hero checked, mp3 bet 24 and Co called 24. We are looking at $75 pot, by pushing all in it's only 165 for MP3 into a 240 pot and 96 for Co to call. I have a lot of FE and I put a nice squeeze play on the bigger of the two stacks. I'm not crushed if the unlikely worst case scenario of both calling with one having a set and the other having a higher flush draw as 6 of my straight outs are good.

All that and it's great for my image.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:12 PM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

This is an open straight draw last time I checked. I think I may check raise this flop a lot of the time.

In your spot I'd probably check the turn and see what develops.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:16 PM
Leptyne Leptyne is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

A limped pot with 6 players and you're first to act. You've got a str8 draw that would be nice if the bottom end hit as then you'd make the nut str8. If the 9 hits then you've got the bottom end. With 5 other players limping I wouldn't discount the possibility of someone limping with JTs, or even J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. You've got a flush draw to the low end. Think one of the 5 limpers left to act might have a better flush draw?

I understand that you're a 3-2 favorite to hit your draw, and that's great, but I don't see anything (yet)to indicate that you'll be good if you hit. Sure you can c/r all-in. You can do that with any two. Your comments give me the impression that you're determined to take this pot down.......and I'm guessing you can too. From your description noone call your flop bet.

Unless.........they've seen you do this before. My first thought when I see this move is the player does not want any callers. But, if this is just an occasional move that they haven't seen I'd put you down for a good steal.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: 2/4 Inside straight and flush draw - suggest a better line.

Tough spot. You probably thought you could take it right here, right? Or, as you said, 3 bet all-in? Yeah. Then things went all batty.

The problem with your play here is that your EV is so much better with a check-raise on the flop than a flat out push on the turn. This is because the player here with A8 may look you up and call. The CO may be calling with A7 and just hoping to come along for the ride, get lucky. I doubt that someone has a set, there would probably be a raise; but, that's not too remote a possibility either.

I would have checked the flop. If someone bets, then I'd push. I'd be getting great fold equity this way, great odds if there is a call. If I get two checks, then so be it. A flop bet is fine here, too, however; in fact I'd probably be doing this at least half the time because I get good fold equity and good implied odds depending on my turn. You just got two callers and a sucky turn.

I think a turn push would be fine against one player, two is just too risky on the turn. I think that checking the turn and hoping that the 7 hurt both opponents is the way to go. If one of them bets, however, you can just cold call for odds or then push depending on how strong you think the bet is.

Argun
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