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Old 12-26-2005, 07:21 AM
soah soah is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 112
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

Ugh. I did it again. Started writing and then realized I was wrong. I need to do this more often. I seem to learn a lot even if I can't explain anything.

The only thing that hasn't changed too much in my mind is that duck's flop raise looks like it doesn't want action (either to protect against a draw, or because she's on a draw herself). On the turn it now looks like she's trying to keep the guy in.

I went and wrote more again and deleted it because once again I keep contradicting myself.

It would really help though to get an idea of what sort of preflop range we're working with for a limp/call UTG+1. Most of the hands she posts simply involve betting and raising so when I see calling I just get confused. =(
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:12 AM
Rotating Rabbit Rotating Rabbit is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 528
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

As I was reading the post i thought 10J, not necessarily hearts.

Really interesting hand though.
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:36 AM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 160
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

It think the most interesting part of the hand is the range we put VILLAIN on on the TURN.

hint hint

How many here think it's a queen?

Edit: As a side, since I forgot to ask you this... do you think you have enough FE to CR this turn with AhQh? I almost think you'd be CRing the turn with that hand, although now that I think about it villain is going to be unlikely to bet once you've squeezed the flop. So, never mind. There I go again.
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:13 PM
ahnuld ahnuld is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 185
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

AQ of hearts seems the most resaonable, or KQ, but does she really limp those UTG+1? AQ suited is a pretty storng hand, and duck isnt a slowplayer, so id almost rule that hand out. QJ, she would probably fold unless it was suited, but I still think she folds that. I could see something like JT of hearts and river is a push becuase she knows villan wont call without the Q, but if I was villan, id call with a set of tens on up. 44 is also a possibility, but if that is the case, its a pretty ugly rive rand she prob. checks. My guess is total bluff with something like JT of hearts or a funky queen like TQ hearts or KQ.
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:19 PM
Matt Flynn Matt Flynn is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 301
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

Unanswerable duck. You made a nonstandard play on at least one street. It is most likely you did that with AhQh. You could have another AQ or KQ or QJ and got hyper on the flop (and turn with the last), or have a set and gambooled on the turn. Or nothing and just hosed three barrels at him.

Presumably you had AhQh and this is not some random hand. I take it he called with AK or K-little, and perhaps picked you off from a spazz hand.
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Old 12-26-2005, 12:26 PM
Fishlips_Jones Fishlips_Jones is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4
Default Re: 10/20 hand reading exercise

Typo on the AK. I meant AQ.

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Old 12-26-2005, 12:58 PM
mgsimpleton mgsimpleton is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 0

ok i'm liking the responses... matt flynn, you say this is unanswerable... i'm not looking for people to guess my specific hand (which happened to be Th8h), my play was definitely non-standard. i was more surprised by how long villain stayed with me than by anything else...

look at villain's actions - i raise two people in what looks like a protected pot (though bb was a bit of a donk and i did think he might actually fold) and yet he still calls... you'd think it would haver to be a strong hand. yes, i am on a draw here though i'm pretty sure i'd play a set the same way if i decided to check/raise, which i often do.

on the turn, i did not get there. This is one main point of why I posted the hand, I knew my turn bet was small. I was going to bet much more but then I looked at his stack and said I would give up if i didn't improve and was called unless a very scary river card came. but with this plan to fire again on a scary river card, i could bet much more on the turn if i wanted any decent fold equity on the river. a couple people here picked up on that. the small turn bet - bigger river bet (relative to pot size) unless the sizes are negligible is often the sign of a bluff, IMO. i try to avoid doing it but sometimes it is unavoifdable, which is why it is a good tell.

anyways seeing as how he didn't just shove, i figured he didn't have KK or TT, and he was preflop raiser. he could have had AQhh as well but i was pretty read to push the money in so i think on the turn he sticks it in there as well. so i couldn't give him credit foranything better than AA/AK (if anyone has a different idea, please enlighten me) and on the river I just prayed it wasn't KQ and shovedand he folded...

anyways that was my thought process about the whole turn bet idea, just thought i'd share and see if there's any feedback about ideas about that.

lastly, i was wondering what people do on the river with a set. let's say i had TT the whole time and this river came - do you still shove? i mean, the thing is... his range hasn't changed in my opinion (and it is still very narrow unless someone can shed some more light here) so a Q or a set isn't any different really unless he has a Q which is very unlikely. i've talked to some people who said they shove with a Q but not with a set - how does that make any sense when his range is still the same? so would people make a smaller value bet or just shove? ideas?
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Old 12-26-2005, 01:36 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Re: RESULTS

Well after reading your post last night I decided that you were holding AQh. This is what I determined after your play on all streets. I considered K 10 intially, but that river push completely eliminated it.

The most important part about this entire thread is the fact that you do not even have close to an accurate read on this villain.

I play ALOT of 10/20 on PP and Villain just popped up this past week. Overall I would describe him as very poor and makes ALOT of terrible decisions.

As a result I like your play because Villain is unable to call this river bet without at least a straight.

I honestly think Villain had AA on this hand. I have seen him make weak ass raises in LP with AA.

Oh by the way I forgot to mention I was at the table and I thought the hand was interesting while I was watching it. To tell you the truth though, I thought you were bluffing on that river with a missed draw. There is no reason to be pushing that river unless you just caught a miracle card, or you are bluffing. Luckily for you Villain was a moron and has no clue, probably just didnt want to lose another $3K.

10 8 h treat you well last night?
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Old 12-26-2005, 04:13 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Re: RESULTS

If I had a set I'll c/r, call a push or push I have to put strongly on ak,n seldom aa or once in a blue moon 10's. 10's always call a push ak folds alot(could be wrong here) and AA folds. I think theres more value in prehaps a value
bet 2k or so with a set. I bet more on the turn with a set then push what's left.
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Old 12-26-2005, 04:57 PM
Jason Strasser Jason Strasser is offline
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 71
Default Re: RESULTS

Who is the villain? If it's who I'm thinking, why is he so bad?
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