Need a second opinion...

[JaBlue]

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there are no rules. this 5/10 thing is just a guideline for people who dont understand implied odds. if you understood implied odds then you would know the answer to the question.

the best response you will get here is "it depends"

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quoted for emphasis

[Woolygimp]

You misread what I typed then. What i meant by marginally +ev or drastically -ev is:
Against a decent opponent, Even if you hit your set he'll probaly not pay you off with an overpair. He'll stack you everytime you both hit sets & you won't get paid off enough on your implied odds to make the immediately call +ev. Thats the drastically -ev part.

Against a super lag, you will sometimes be able to stack him and assuming he doesn't have a set or suck out on you you will need to make at least $750 immediately from the times you do hit to make it a profitable play. Assuming he doesn't hit a set, or suck out on you when you do hit and the reverse implied odds of that and the times where he doesn't overplay his hand you're only going to be marginally making a profit.

[Allinlife]

I think call would be pretty bad...getting over set with 1k bb would suck hard

[edge]

Is this any different than limp/calling a 5xBB raise with 100 BB stacks? Shouldn't it be essentially the exact same (other than the 1.5 BB of blinds being relatively smaller)?

[VanVeen]

i) You don't understand EV calculations. We include all outcomes and their frequency when calculating expected value.

ii) When in position, the preflop raising range of a random player online is broad enough that post-flop steal equity can make up for the "implied odds" shortage with hands like 22-66. given the width of a random player's preflop raising range, we can steal/win with the best hand (an underpair) on enough flops/turns to make up what we lose by not hitting a set and stacking an overpair or tptk often enough. out of position, even vs. very bad players who always payoff, you should almost certainly be folding these hands. the profitability of stealing isn't great enough and your implied odds are slightly worse. the EV of calling preflop is negative. i automuck these hands oop facing a raise in heads-up pots.

when games get deeper (150bb+) this changes, especially if you have an aggressive image. you should be playing these hands even vs. broader preflop raising ranges and decent players.

[soah]

If your opponent won't back his stack with an overpair then you can steal enough pots to show a profit in the long run.

If you never steal and your opponent correctly folds on the rare occasion that you play back at him, then yes, you are losing a ton of money. It's because you are being severely outplayed.

[Big_Jim]

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i like how you changed your raise from 5xBB in MSNL to 50xBB here. thats a big difference.

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