|
|
#22
10-22-2005, 04:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
your reasoning behind checking the flop is fine if as you said he is highly likely to have a big pair here and bet, and you can both help tie him to the pot and hope some donkeys come along.
the only reason this is acceptable here is because with 6 people in a raised pot, the pot is unnaturally large enough for you to get a lot of chips in it on later streets. you are not burdened with having to build a big pot, its already there. so after the flop is checked through you can put him squarely on AK, and you turn a gin card, non diamond A/K. when none of the donkey herd bets the turn and its checked to you, you concern is now primarily on stacking him. if any of the limpers are bad and can't resist this big pot when they hit top pair with A9, then that is an added bonus. as flawless and i stated, a competent player should get away from AK here to a big check-raise, so why do it? lead into him, hope he raises, and if not you can still lead the river big because the pot was bloated. if he is even halfway decent, then he is likely aware just how transparent his AK is after checking the flop behind, so he knows you know AK is a very likely holding for him, yet you CR him anyway. unless you are playing at a level with him of "we both know you have AK, so am i intentionally moving you off it, or am i valueing you because i dont think you will fold it", which doesn't seem like it is the case. like i said, i think this hand would have been more interesting to post from the villans perspective. --- to wit: "tons of donkeys limp to me on the button with AKs. i hit it a lick to 50 straight (10xBB, because they love to call). it is no surprise that we are 6 to the flop for a pot of 300. flop is 823dd. everyone checks to me, i opt to not continue and check behind. free turn for 6 players. turn Ao. i turn TPTK, checked to the solid player in the cutoff that... now what do i do if CO a) leads into me. call/raise/fold? b) checks to me. bet/check? b1) checks to me and then CR me allin. call/fold? ---- had you posted this, i think you could have gathered from peoples responses which would be the optimal line for CO holding a set. 
|
|
#23
10-22-2005, 08:38 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
no offense but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what went on in this hand. you are directly in front of CO and want to trap dead money. On flop he checks and screams AK. turn A gets there and once again you want to trap dead money and know you can now because he has written on his forehead that he has AK. If I'm on button with AK, this all seems very obvious.
that being said it was definitely the best way to go about things, sucks you couldn't pick up more money and good thing villain was a donk. that's the thing about those tight preflop rocks - they rarely lay down TPTK or overpairs since they play so few f*cking hands.
|
|
#24
10-22-2005, 04:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
when none of the donkey herd bets the turn and its checked to you, you concern is now primarily on stacking him. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps this is where my logic was flawed. I suppose having it checked through them twice greatly reduces the chance that a donkey comes along for the ride. Since I have to get a donkey and a half to come along to make up for the money in stacking villian... it's probably not worth it [ QUOTE ] if any of the limpers are bad and can't resist this big pot when they hit top pair with A9, then that is an added bonus. [/ QUOTE ] Man.. I really thought this was likely, though. I don't think the donks would have folded an A here... but maybe I'm underestimating them. Although, I did see some horrendous calldowns throughout the night. [ QUOTE ] as flawless and i stated, a competent player should get away from AK here to a big check-raise, so why do it? [/ QUOTE ] Meh.. I didn't think a competent player would get away. Apparently my line is much more transparent that I thought it was.... I thought I was representing a bluff fairly well. [ QUOTE ] like i said, i think this hand would have been more interesting to post from the villans perspective. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you're right. Too bad I can't just repost it.
|
|
#25
10-22-2005, 04:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm on button with AK, this all seems very obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Any way I stack you with AK here? Lead the turn? [ QUOTE ] they rarely lay down TPTK or overpairs since they play so few f*cking hands. [/ QUOTE ] God bless, 'em. They make my car payments.
|
|
#26
10-23-2005, 02:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If I'm on button with AK, this all seems very obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Any way I stack you with AK here? Lead the turn? [/ QUOTE ] Ive played with vanessa a bit and I gauruntee you she bets the flop, if you checkraise she folds, if you call and stop and go turn ace she makes a read and moves in or folds. she might call and then call the river (esp. in a 2-5 game) but she's good so she probably folds. then again given what she / we have seen in typical 2-5 games (and similar stakes) tptk is so good vs the bulk majority of them you could get paid off. if you check she probably checks the turn and callsa river bet on some cards and folds to others, if you check again she bets and if gets checkraised there she looks at you really funny and says "you suck"then folds. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] they rarely lay down TPTK or overpairs since they play so few f*cking hands. [/ QUOTE ] God bless, 'em. They make my car payments. [/ QUOTE ] Yah, that said I do like your line alot, and yeah, fairly standard. nh!
|
|
#27
10-23-2005, 06:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
So I've only gotten interested in NLH ring games since I saw how many donkeys were playing it at the new rooms in Atlantic City this summer- I was busy learning how to slaughter low-limit games, which casinos around me spread almost exclusively. This post has been a great read and I have a question for you all that (IMO) highlights a necessary skill to pick up when you move from small stakes limit tables to no-limit tables.
When would the villain be correct in making a call? It's obvious there are some situations where it would be beyond the pale to fold. For example, if Jim's all in raise was only fifteen dollars more, or you had frequently seen the villain do this with any ace and you had A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Now of course there's no way I'd check that flop with a flush draw etc, etc. But what do you do with AK on that turn? What do you do in response to the all-in? In short, what are your calling parameters if you're the villain in this hand? Where is it a tough descision to lay it down? Nowhere?
|
|
#28
10-23-2005, 08:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
first, i dont think this is "non-standard"... this is the most standard hand in the history of the 2+2 forums... [/ QUOTE ] you have got to be joking
|
|
#29
10-23-2005, 08:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
Ive played with vanessa a bit and I gauruntee you she bets the flop [/ QUOTE ] You think she bets the flop with AK no diamond draw into 5 people when she's almost certain to get a call? Seems like a steep price to pay to clean up possible 3-6 outs.
|
|
#30
10-23-2005, 09:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Live $2/$5 Non-Standard Set Line
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ive played with vanessa a bit and I gauruntee you she bets the flop [/ QUOTE ] You think she bets the flop with AK no diamond draw into 5 people when she's almost certain to get a call? Seems like a steep price to pay to clean up possible 3-6 outs. [/ QUOTE ] it's amazing how often people fold to her. and yeah, I think she'd stick a bet in here, although I wouldn't... maybe she wouldny, 5 way does seem like lighting money on fire. perhaps she'll comment? =)
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
