an easy one

[joker122]

party 5/10 utg+1 open limps, co raises, fold to me in the BB with QQ, i 3bet, utg+1 calls 2 more, co caps.

flop is K92r

what's the best line here?

[etizzle]

check, fold for two cold on the flop if that's what happens.

If its checked to CO and he bets you can either checkraise (calling a 3 bet and folding UI) or call and bet out the turn. The call-donkbet line is just begging to be bluffraised by thinking players so probably don't use this one if the player is LAG or very good.

I personally like checkraising the flop and seeing where that brings us. If he just call the turn after the flop raise then I would bet the river for value.

[Noodles]

thats not easy!
i dunno,bet call a flop raise,then ummm,call down??
i havent a clue

[Mig]

How is CO ? Weak tight ? TA ? Is he of the kind to raise a flop bet with like 99/AJ/AQ to have a cheapshowdown ? If CO is weak tight I might check raise that flop doing so you might be able to have the blind fold a weak King ? Or I lead the flop call a raise and fold the turn UI if he fires again and that he is the kind of player to fire when he has it...

[J.R.]

i normally check-raise because

1) even though utg coldcalled 2 more preflop, you holding QQ limits utg's gutshot possibilities and the k high on board means overcards are not a fear there are hands you want him to fold that he won't for 13-1 but that he might and/or should for 7-2, namely one pair hands and one pair hands with backdoor straight/flush draws, but most importantly

2) it makes it easier to play v CO. I think at 5-10 you can do better than blindy assuming you will see a showdown sans an A by playing back at CO's expcected flop bet and reacting from there, especially if you have some sorta read/preliminary stats. The most credible line to your opponent isn't a flop or turn donkbet but a flop CR and turn lead.

[JrJordan]

Either way ahead or way behind. Normally in a HU pot this would be the time to just check/call it to a showdown. With UTG+1 still in the hand though, it's a bit tougher. This is about as drawless as it gets though so allowing a 5 outer for one bet instead of two isn't too bad. I check this flop, and call if UTG+1 checks as well and CO bets. If UTG+1 donk bets and CO raises then I probably muck it there.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
i normally check-raise because

1) even though utg coldcalled 2 more preflop, you holding QQ limits utg's gutshot possibilities and the k high on board means overcards are not a fear there are hands you want him to fold that he won't for 13-1 but that he might and/or should for 7-2, namely one pair hands and one pair hands with backdoor straight/flush draws, but most importantly

2) it makes it easier to play v CO. I think at 5-10 you can do better than blindy assuming you will see a showdown sans an A by playing back at CO's expcected flop bet and reacting from there, especially if you have some sorta read/preliminary stats. The most credible line to your opponent isn't a flop or turn donkbet but a flop CR and turn lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the c/r gets it heads up, then fine. But if we c/r and both are still in the hand on the turn, then I'm even more lost that I was on the flop. How do you proceed there?

[J.R.]

depends on my read of the co but I'll often put in one more turn bet and that's it.

[Grisgra]

Gee, thanks for all the reads [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Calling a bet on the flop hunting for a set, and folding the turn unimproved is probably the most +EV.

If we assume AK and AA and KK auto-cap, JJ and TT cap maybe 30% of the time, KQ, AQ, AJ cap maybe 20% of the time . . . when you work in UTG hanging around, check/calling the flop looking to see if you hit a set on 4th street might be best.

Though I guess if I believe the percentages I just gave, calling down getting 4:1 by showdown to call the turn and river is even EV. If UTG folds to the button's flop bet.

I wonder whether taking the lead on the flop is worth it. AK probably raises the flop, but JJ/TT/AQ/AJ probably doesn't unless he's really aggro. I don't think a flop checkraise/turn lead gets you anywhere. The only stuff folding is stuff you're beating.

"Easy one" my ass! Not without reads at least.

[Surfbullet]

We are either way ahead or way behind of the CO, so were we HU we'd take a check-call line because the pot is large enough to see a showdown, because we'll be ahead of smaller PPs and unpaired big Aces. Raising allows him to 3bet when he's ahead and fold when he's behind, so there would be no point to raising were it heads-up.

Those advocating raising should examine what effect the UTG+1 caller has on our equity and how the hand plays out.

Possible UTG situations:

1) We're behind to a K (or unlikely 2 pair/set) - we have no chance of folding him, we have 2 outs if he has a K and 2-3 outs depending on what type of 2pair he has. This is quite unlikely.

2) He's got a 9 or a 2 (the 2 is less likely because he did call 2 more preflop) - he has 5 outs to beat us and we'd like to try and drive him out. However, if he is anything like the average 5/10er he's not folding a pair even to a raise, so we can make things less profitable for him but we cannot protect our hand. We cannot risk a 3bet but 5 outs isn't horrible. This is relatively unlikely.


3) he's got a no-pair hand with an A. These have 3 outs + runner runner outs. While we'd prefer to drive him out of the pot the risk of being 3bet by UTG means we will need to sacrifice some equity and allow him to call along. This is not too common.

4) he's got a no pair hand that is drawing to runner-runners (nearly dead), or a PP that is drawing to 2 outs. We have no desire to drive him out of the pot. Every incorrect call he makes earns us extra $. This is the most common situation.

These factors make it clear that check-calling is the best line. It is very unlikely given all of UTGs possible hands that he is ahead, and he does not detract from our equity enough to check-fold the turn.

His calls are 5 outs at best and 2 outs or runner runner at worst - in this very large pot we retain more than enough equity to see a showdown for 1 bet on each street. Additionally, he will often raise when he is ahead, allowing us to fold.

Surf