Raising question, first live no limit game

[theBrendan]

I played my first live no limit game last night, 1/2 at Foxwoods... the table is aggressive and somewhat loose. I get dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in late position, put in a $10 raise, get called by the button and SB.

The button is a very good, tight player. The SB is overly aggressive and loose, but he seems to know what hes doing and use his table image to his advantage. He's also got a huge stack of chips in front of him.

The flop comes up 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The SB bets $10, I raise $15, the button raises $25, SB folds, I fold. I got some grief at the table for raising then folding but this is what I was thinking: The SB loves to bet into people so his bet really meant nothing, either did his PF call. He could have almost any hand so I figure I probably have him beat. The button is a solid player and might have two high cards or a pocket pair. If he has either (unless it's a monster pair) he'll probably fold to a raise, but if he has a set he'll probably reraise (because he wouldn't be there unless he had something like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]).

As soon as the button reraised I figured he had something good... maybe A7 or AA. When the SB folded it was even more likely the button had a 7.

Anyway, after I folded the button turned over pocket 7s... he flopped quads!

My two questions are:

1. Was my play/thinking ok? Was I over thinking the situation? Should I just have called?

2. If you flop quads and the two poeple before you bet and raise, why on earth wouldn't you just call? You KNOW they don't have a set which is sort of what the raise represents... why not let the raiser (me in this case) bet again and put more money in the pot?

[brokedickrooster]

You make a valid point and a very nice laydown IMHO. For the guy to flop quads and then reraise the flop seems liek he is not extracting maximum value from them. No one is going to catch up enough to crack him, so let the overpair and the other guy bet it up until the river when he can put the hammer down. He must ahve been very excited to hit the flop so well.

[mythrilfox]

Sounds good against this particular opponent. If he cold-calls you are done with the hand as well.

He knows you'd only raise the SB there with an overpair, so by re-raising he's hoping to stack you with AA or KK as soon as possible. A good move against some players, and given the caliber of most live game players today, it's probably not a bad idea at all.

Could you have gotten away from it if you had AA?

[MLerra]

I hear so often about people doing something at a table and then "getting grief" for it. Tell them to STFU and play poker. And you, stop thinking that their comments somehow validate/invalidate your play. People at live NL games are about 10 IQ points away from being legally retarded. You got grief because people were worried the button was bluffing and got away with it, and they don't want to end up getting bluffed themselves later on.

Best thing to do here is (a) ignore them for the morons that they are, (b) somehow try to lighten the mood a bit, because you want to keep these morons at your table, and (c) play it off as though you were bluffing on the flop yourself. I would do all of the above in this situation - I'd say something like "Whatever guys, I got caught bluffing and when he raised me I almost went all-in but I kinda thought he might have flopped quads."

For one thing, you look extremely loose. For another, no one believes you, because who the heck assumes someone flops quads? Hopefully they laugh at you then, instead of berating your play. Lastly, you then wait as long as it takes to flop a set or two pair or something, and play it the exact same way. Let one of these clowns reraise you, thinking that you're bluffing. Then do exactly what you said you'd do before - reraise him all-in. And take all his money because he is so concerned about losing all his money to a bluff.

[DoomSlice]

Whaaa?? How does this relate to the original post? Did you even read it?

[pyedog]

[ QUOTE ]
Whaaa?? How does this relate to the original post? Did you even read it?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was talking about how to act when you get grief from bad players at a live game. This is something the OP was complaining about. And I think the advice he gives for exploiting your image against gullible players is valuable.

Nice laydown in the original hand. NL definitely takes a lot of discipline and trust in your reads. Those are both things that I need to work on and I think you exemplified both in this case.

[MLerra]

I also edited it to add a lengthy part about the button's line of thinking, and how the poster played it. Somehow I guess it didn't go through. I sum up:

Well played by Hero, IMO. You correctly identified a tight player. No tight player reraises there without either a 7 or an overpair at worst. And any overpair but 88 beats you.

Button assumes you have either a medium pair (8, 9, 10, J) or a premium pair. If he assumes medium pair, I think his raise might have been a good plan. If he just calls, and an overcard to your pair comes down, he knows you'll likely not put in much more $$. If he assumes a premium pair, he calls that and lets you bet the river as a card under your premium pair will most likely fall.

So, he likely assumed medium pair. What he didn't take into account was the fact that you read him too. And you knew he was tight, and knew he must have had something to reraise like that. So you laid it down. If your opponent did some third level thinking, instead of first or second level, he might have called the flop and let you possibly bet the turn.

(from villain perspective)
1) What [villain] has
2) What [villain] thinks [hero] has
3) What [hero] thinks [villain] has

Lastly, I think button should have called on the off chance you hit a set on the turn or river. In that case, all of both your stacks are going in the middle, and he is taking all of your money. When you figure this into the mix, implied odds go through the roof and I can hardly imagine that his reraise is as +EV as a simple call could be.

Edit: Doomslice, thanks. I guess I can learn a lesson from you about not making a post when I have nothing to say regarding the original post. Oh wait...