How much edge does position give you?

[Justin A]

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Lets say he's a typical 28/12 player who is little too loose and a little to passive. He doesnt make good folds, doesnt understand his hand values as well as he should etc...

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Ok, I think his hand range is basically all hands that do not dominate KJo. AJ, KQ, etc. would all be raising. I think you're looking at a bunch of suited and pair type hands, probably ranging from Axs to suited one gappers.

[InfernoLL]

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I have been three-betting AJo alot recently against ok/not quite tight players raising from MP. I would have folded in the BB. Position and the lead is worth a ton.

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Isn't this retarded? If your AJo has value enough to reraise in position it should have enough value to call 1 bet OOP against a "not quite tight" player. Who folds there?

[ggbman]

Not me.

[elmo]

I don't like the showdown value of my hand nearly as much as I like the folding equity I pick up by 3-betting. Though in fairness perhaps I should be calling in the BB. I think I am significantly more likely to end the hand on the flop if I 3-bet, whereas if I call in the BB, I'm not going to have as good an idea of where I am postflop, and I'll be OOP. I'll talk more about this after dinner... the basic idea is 3-betting ajo again someone whose range is 55+ jts+ A9+ and is going to fold too much postflop is good. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] This is a fairly specific situation, against a fairly specific opponent type, but its come up 3 times this week where I'm sure it was right.

[Dazarath]

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Average player limps in MP. It folds to me in the CO or button with KJ. I raise this every time, even though i know KJ does not have positive equity against his range. I will also do it with worse hands sometimes. WHen someone limps, typically it is not a hand they want to showdown without improvement, so i think a big edge comes from having the iniative. Anyone thought on this?

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I think it's a good raise because:
1) You have position.
2) It's likely that you have an equity edge.
3) If you have a slight equity deficiency, but you fold out the blinds, you've gained.
4) Or if you have a slight deficiency, but the blinds will defend with rag-rag-off, you've also gained.
5) Lastly, like you mentioned, there's times when you can take it down on the flop when your opponent misses.

[elmo]

So here is the opponent who I think it is right to muck AJo in the BB, but three-bet on the button:
16.94/12.27/2.40, went to SD:33.12, won at SD:60.78, 2k hands

[ggbman]

You seriously need to elaborate on why you fold this in the BB.

[elmo]

I think I lose more than .5 BB on average if I call here. If I hit my hand, my general line is check raise the flop, lead the turn. I guess I could check-raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet more here, but currently when I am continuing beyond the flop I end up leading the turn, and not being comfortable folding to the raise. I end up paying off a turn raise and river bet. I think I just don't play well OOP against this type of player because I showdown too much, and can't confidently change that in this situation.