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  #1  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:12 PM
Kyle Kyle is offline
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Default What line maximizes value?

I discussed this hand with a friend of mine and we had different opinions on the best line to take here.

He thought call flop raise turn and fold two three bet and I liked wait until the river to raise. Good arguments for both lines though.

Villian in this hand is davidross. Not really sure if Davidross knows that I am a 2+2er but I have played quite a few hands with him although prob only few hundred under this screename. So I assume that he uses pokerace/playerview and knows I am TAG. What is the best line to take here in order to maximize value here?

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.67 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero...
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:24 PM
Derek123 Derek123 is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

I'd probably call and raise the turn. Waiting till the river can be a good line but I think too often he will check-call or check-fold the river so you miss some value.
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

On this texture of a board(a ten high flop), I like to 3 bet the flop right away. This is becuz if my opponent has QQ,JJ, or Tx, there are many turn cards that could easily freeze up his action and he could possibly check to me on the turn so I prefer to get the money in right away on the flop while my opponent still likes his hand. If you got checkraised on a King high flop, waiting til the turn to raise has more merit since there is only one possibe overcard that could hit the turn that might potentially freeze up the villain and kill your action.
Also with AA heads up you should seldom take any line that might lead you to fold. Your hand is too strong in this heads up situation.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:18 PM
otis_nixon otis_nixon is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

I Like you friends line, call flop and raise turn with intent of folding three bet
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:38 PM
bakku bakku is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

3-betting the flop or raising the turn are both fine. i don't like waiting for the river. raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet is horrible. if i get 3-bet on the turn my decision is between capping or calling down.
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:38 PM
Kyle Kyle is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably call and raise the turn. Waiting till the river can be a good line but I think too often he will check-call or check-fold the river so you miss some value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you fold to a three bet if you raise the turn?
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:39 PM
Kyle Kyle is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop or raising the turn are both fine. i don't like waiting for the river. raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet is horrible. if i get 3-bet on the turn my decision is between capping or calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why dont you like waiting until the river to raise?
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:42 PM
bakku bakku is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop or raising the turn are both fine. i don't like waiting for the river. raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet is horrible. if i get 3-bet on the turn my decision is between capping or calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why dont you like waiting until the river to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

too many turn and river cards that could come that will make him check to you and this is a drawy board
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:43 PM
baronzeus baronzeus is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably call and raise the turn. Waiting till the river can be a good line but I think too often he will check-call or check-fold the river so you miss some value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you fold to a three bet if you raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is a 0% chance I am folding if 3bet.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2005, 10:03 PM
RED_RAIN RED_RAIN is offline
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Default Re: What line maximizes value?

Against another 2+2...I 3 bet this flop everytime. I think more often than not he has a flush draw or overpair. If he has either he's not folding to the river but won't always pay off on the river with a flush draw.

This also sets up on the turn if the flush comes and he goes for a check/raise he can't put 3 bets in on me.

If he caps flop, I would raise him back on turn and then call down as then I'd give him credit of a set.
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