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  #1  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:49 AM
CarlosChadha CarlosChadha is offline
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Default 30/60 Stud hi hand

Any thoughts? All players are good semi-loose, tricky and very agressive. No one knows the 5 seat well (he is the weakest), but the other 3 of us have played thousands of hands together.

7 Card Stud High ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

Seat 1: $2,329
Seat 3: $725
Seat 5: $292
Seat 6: $806.50
Hero: $4,913
Seat 8: $587

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (5.00 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

5th Street - (8.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (12.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (15.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets___raises___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___folds

Total pot: (23.50 BB)
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:00 AM
BTirish BTirish is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

Heh, how tricky/aggressive is Seat 3? I think he's saying pretty clearly "I've got aces" on 4th. I think this is a fold on 4th (or 5th, if you must peel one on 4th) unless you know he's likely to have air. You're the one who has played thousands of hands with him, and I don't play this high.

He bets right into your paired door on 6th, and he 3-bets on the river. If nothing else, I'd refrain from capping the river, but this is close since he can't 5-bet.
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:02 AM
Andy B Andy B is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

I think a reasonable case can be made for folding on third. I would probably only call on fourth and hope to either hit hard on fifth or get out cheap. I definitely only call the three-bet on the river unless this guy is really a loose cannon.

I see the game is full as I write this. Don't think I've ever seen that before. How often does it go?
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:03 AM
mscags mscags is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

This is an easy fold on third right? I don't see why you called unless you had a good read he was raising light.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:19 AM
CarlosChadha CarlosChadha is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

[ QUOTE ]

I see the game is full as I write this. Don't think I've ever seen that before. How often does it go?

[/ QUOTE ]

The game goes 2 to 4 handed about 12-16 hours a day and gets more than 4 people for maybe an hour a day.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2005, 03:24 AM
frappeboy frappeboy is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

Carlos,

I think if you play this hand you should re-raise on 3rd street. I hate to cold call 3rd street with what could be a lower pair because you are making a mistake one way or the other. If he actually has aces its a mistake to call and if he doesn't have aces its a mistake not to re-raise to get it heads up. So atleast by re-raising you have a chance that you are making the right play. Barry Greenstein talks about this concept in his book "Ace on the river"

The raise on 4th street looks OK to knock out seat 8. But like I said before I think if you're willing to raise on 4th street to knock out players you might as well do it on 3rd.

I would just call on 5th street like you did. Normally I'd like to raise here with such a big pot but I really don't think you're gonna make anyone fold after 4th street.

I might raise on 6th street. First off I think there is a good chance you have the best hand here since you have the ace. Seat 3 could have pocket kings or queens here. The two benefits of the raise here is that seat 8 is definitely on a draw and if you indeed do have the best hand you want to get him out of there. Secondly, you gain more information from seat 3. Even if hes really tricky, I think if he 3 bets on 6th street you can be fairly sure he has trip aces and can fold on the river, although it would be a tough fold.

I like the original raise on the river but I would just call when he re-raises.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2005, 11:48 AM
jon_1van jon_1van is offline
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Location: Silver Spring MD
Posts: 53
Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

Questions :

-If you don't raise 4th (I'm assuming to fold some people), what do you do on 5th when the pot is so much smaller?

-What do you put seat 8 on? (My read in white) <font color="white"> Seat 8 looks like a low 3 flush. Sticking around for the double bet on 4th looks alot like 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or something similar (maybe a rolled hand) </font> end read

Given what I think of 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] guy, 5th seems like its getting a bit scary. The reason here is that I can't see what that guy can call with that doesn't utterly destory your pot equity. And I think I may have folded there. But if the Ace is very aggressive (and will play this way with something like 66A) and the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] guy is a bit "sticky" then I'd play on now that at least I have ugly straight outs, and my Tens are still live.
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:16 PM
lstream lstream is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

When he three bets you on the river, he sure seems to announce that he is full - i.e. he is not afraid that you hit a straight or flush draw, which MIGHT be his read based upon your play. Given your description of him, he could easily have started with 88A. (more fuel for the third street raise opinions) If that turns out to be true, then nice cap, but that appears to be about the only plausible way you win the hand, unless of course he had a temporary lapse in judgement.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
BTirish BTirish is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

lstream: good point about 8-8-A being a possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if that were what was shown down. However, if that's the read that makes capping the river appropriate, then it is definitely what also makes folding 4th or 5th UI appropriate.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2005, 12:06 AM
vintage_sara vintage_sara is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 Stud hi hand

Got enough chips on the table Carlos? I think you need about 1K more to be intimidating. Tee hee.

Here are the assumptions I am making based on your calls and raises:

3rd - you do not believe your opponent has aces or a pair above your 10s.

4th &amp; 5th - you are trying to buy a free card on 5th street or get it heads up. Since you call 5th you have already made the decision to take it to the river as you do not have a strong draw secondary draw on 5th street and need a runner runner straight or fullhouse to have a strong five card hand.

6th street - You call. You now decide your opponent may have three aces since he bets into your board that is straight looking and also has a paired door card.

7th street - You are full so you decide to raise when he bets into you. But he three bets you and you decide to cap it...just cause...lol (can't think of good reason why unless you think he is less than 10s full--8s full?)

Okay analysis:


First, not real fond of your third street play. I assume you call here because you have the ace kicker. That doesn't mean he doesn't have aces or a pair over your 10s and it also means you are playing 6 card stud vs 7 card stud, essentially. One thing I wouldn't put him on is a flush draw.

But, if you are playing third because you don't think he has he aces or a pair bigger than yours, I recommend a reraise to try get it heads up on third or to find out where you are sooner so you can make a decision to fold on 5th.

Since you decided to only call the raise on 3rd street, I recommend making the move you did on 4th on 5th instead. I assume you made this move to get the hand heads up or to buy a free card. I don't think you did it to find out where you were at because you called 5th (didn't fold) without a strong redraw to a five card hand (i.e. you needed a runner runner straight or full house). I believe you have already made the decsion to stay in the hand to river unless a disaster happens. The four street raise with the suited connector is not real strong with all the diamonds out so the "raise value" is not as good as it might be in other situations.

If you make the move on 5th street instead, the player has to question where you are at and you have a better chance of knocking out at least one player behind you when he has to call two bets cold. I would have done this even if you didn't catch the nice looking 9. IMO that card was bonus for a 5th street raise.

On 6th - what the hell do you do? If your read is that player one doesn't have aces then you should raise to charge the most to the drawing hands. You really don't put the 5th seat on a flush with all the diamond out, at least I don't. And Seat 8 could be pushing for a flush and/or now be open-ended? Gotta love 6th street folders in a pot like this.

If you decide that player 1 may in fact have three aces cause he bets into your straight looking paired door card board on 6th, then capping the river is insane when he three bets you. At least save one bet..unless you think he has 8s full.

Fun hand.

Repectfully,

Sara
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