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  #51  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:47 AM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

Tookie is dead. Dare I say, Dare, Dare, the world is a better place.

Love,

X
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  #52  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:51 AM
nicky g nicky g is offline
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Default Re: This bloodlust is sickening

[ QUOTE ]
Richard,

"Isn't that the idea behind the idea of rehabilitation."

The criminal justice system is not and should not be about rehabilitation. It is about punishment and protecting society.

[/ QUOTE ]

Says who? I think it should be about rehabilitation and protecting society. Why don;t you think it should be about rehabilitation? If people could be genuinely rehabilitated (perhaps you think they can't?), wouldn't rehabilitating them be a massive net gain to society, in terms of having fewer dangerous people around (you can't lock all criminals up forever) and no longer having to pur resources into locking many up?
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  #53  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:59 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

[ QUOTE ]
Tookie is dead. Dare I say, Dare, Dare, the world is a better place.

Love,

X

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure that the world is better off now that a guy who was rotting in jail anyway, is instead rotting 6 feet underground?
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  #54  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:01 AM
Richard Tanner Richard Tanner is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

[ QUOTE ]
Tookie is dead. Dare I say, Dare, Dare, the world is a better place.

Love,

X

[/ QUOTE ]

You can say whatever you like, but I think you're wrong. No one was being harmed by him in Jail, I'd say we're breaking even as long as you don't count the overall negitives of the death penelty.

Cody
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  #55  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:15 AM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

Well, for one thing, I don't have to pay for feeding him anymore. That's just one way I figure it. The arguements about it's cheaper just to feed him than the process of killing him really don't fly with me, fundamentally because I don't believe the lawyers who make that arguement really want to put themselves out of a job.

Another way is to say that the figurehead of a culture which followed a convicted murderer and sought to emmulate him is gone. Murder is not a socially tolerable offense and should in no way be excused.

The law has been upheld and was not subverted in spite of the huge activist campaign. The rule of law has sent a very clear message here that it is not subject to the whims of the mob.

This is all good.
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  #56  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:26 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

[ QUOTE ]

Well, for one thing, I don't have to pay for feeding him anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this doesn't fly with me because there are still hundreds of thousands of drug dealers, rapists and murderers who you are paying to feed but don't care about.

[ QUOTE ]
The arguements about it's cheaper just to feed him than the process of killing him really don't fly with me, fundamentally because I don't believe the lawyers who make that arguement really want to put themselves out of a job.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really isn't lawyers who are making the argument but anti-death penalty activists. Also, by your logic, wouldn't an anti-death penalty lawyer ENCOURAGE the death penalty if his only concern was keeping his job?

[ QUOTE ]

Another way is to say that the figurehead of a culture which followed a convicted murderer and sought to emmulate him is gone. Murder is not a socially tolerable offense and should in no way be excused.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was hardly a figurehead. He had been in jail for nearly 25 years when he was executed and, as far as we know, had little to no contact with current gang members. I also don't see how execution is the only way to show that murder is not acceptable. Also, if anything, he became an enemy to the people who say adored him because he became such an ardent anti-gang advocate in his later years.

[ QUOTE ]

The law has been upheld and was not subverted in spite of the huge activist campaign. The rule of law has sent a very clear message here that it is not subject to the whims of the mob.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was hardly a huge activist campaign. There were certainly many people who felt that he should not have been executed, but that is a far cry from what you describe. Also, had Gov. Schwarzenegger granted clemency, it would have been perfectly acceptable within the confines of the law.

Basially, my question is, why do you really care whether he lives or dies?

EDIT: Actually, we do know that he had some contact with gang members because he helped to successfully negotiate an agreement between the Bloods and the Crips to end 2 decades of violence.
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  #57  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: This bloodlust is sickening

[ QUOTE ]
Horseshit, it's about vengence and your thrust for blood

[/ QUOTE ]

Richard Tanner,

What should the "system" have done to rehabilitate Jeffrey Dahmer?
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  #58  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:54 AM
texaspimp texaspimp is offline
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Default Re: This bloodlust is sickening

[ QUOTE ]
It's not Tookie's fault he's being killed (as opposed to serving a life term) and those that care for him are paying a penelty as well.
Cody

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious????

The fact that he committed a crime, was convicted in an ostensibly fair trial, and received the death penalty, was not his fault?

WOW.

As for the argument about all of the other murderers, rapists, etc.. Their sentence should be carried out, no matter what it is. If they have grounds for appeal, then appeal. If they want to use DNA evidence, great. If they have been given a trial, appeal(s), and a CHANCE for clemency, then society has done its job.

I will say that people can change. Rehabilitation and redemption should be encouraged. But there has to be a line at which we, as a society, say "No". Did this case cross that line? I'm not sure, as I do not know all of the facts of the case.

But I hope at some point, people will realize that accountability is not a bad thing. I hope that people realize there are actions and deeds that society considers crimes, and those actions and deeds have consequences.

Let us remember the victims and their families a little bit more than we remember the convicted criminal.
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  #59  
Old 12-13-2005, 10:20 AM
Exsubmariner Exsubmariner is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

Why do I care if he lives or dies?

Simple. Because I'm an awful human being. I didn't say I didn't care about feeding the rest of the prison population, either. I do. I find it sick that I am paying the bills and that the main reason many of them are incarcerated is because someone in the justice and prison system is interested in keeping them locked up because they can make money off it. Make no mistake, having someone locked up for a dime bag of whatever for 20 years is a profit deal for the law enforcement and prison system in this country. One of many things wrong with our justice system.
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  #60  
Old 12-13-2005, 10:24 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: DON\'T KILL TOOKIE

Alright, now that you've completely evaded my question, how about you just answer what I asked you. Why do you care whether or not Stan Williams was put to death?
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