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  #11  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:01 PM
Askilus Askilus is offline
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

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What is this M?

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It's a theory Harringon describes in his books. M is your stack divided by SB + BB + antes. It gives you a number of how many rounds you can last, and given that he propose different strategies. But it applies to MTT:s not STT:s.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is this M?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a theory Harringon describes in his books. M is your stack divided by SB + BB + antes. It gives you a number of how many rounds you can last, and given that he propose different strategies. But it applies to MTT:s not STT:s.

[/ QUOTE ]

The general theory applies to both, it's just not especially useful in an ITM situation in a SNG (which is more like a final table in an MTT). There are completely different considerations at play.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:10 PM
Toopskees Toopskees is offline
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

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But it applies to MTT:s not STT:s.

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Why wouldn't it apply to STTs? What is the difference between a final table of 10 players and a single table tournament that started with 10 players? The concept is based on the ratio of your chip stack to the blinds, and how you should play based on this ratio. That should be independent of how many players started the tournament.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is this M?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a theory Harringon describes in his books. M is your stack divided by SB + BB + antes. It gives you a number of how many rounds you can last, and given that he propose different strategies. But it applies to MTT:s not STT:s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks you. No wonder I have not heard of this M if not applies to the single game.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it applies to MTT:s not STT:s.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't it apply to STTs? What is the difference between a final table of 10 players and a single table tournament that started with 10 players? The concept is based on the ratio of your chip stack to the blinds, and how you should play based on this ratio. That should be independent of how many players started the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just one example, but in a 10-handed SNG, 3 places pay. In the final table of an MTT all 10 places pay (typically). This changes the $EV of any given move significantly.

Similarly, at the beginning of an STT you're way closer to the money than you are at the beginning of an MTT. This tends to mean that you should be willing to take fewer risks in the beginning of an STT than an MTT.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:22 PM
Toopskees Toopskees is offline
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, RESULTS

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Raising 2k gives you a chance to steal blinds, but if played back with gives you a chance to try to fold into second.

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With blinds at 200/400, Hero would be all-in next hand in the BB and would have no leverage. The current short stack could then fold HIS way into second. Hero pushed to try to win the tournament.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2005, 07:25 PM
Toopskees Toopskees is offline
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

Thanks. What you say makes sense.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2005, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, RESULTS

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising 2k gives you a chance to steal blinds, but if played back with gives you a chance to try to fold into second.

[/ QUOTE ]

With blinds at 200/400, Hero would be all-in next hand in the BB and would have no leverage. The current short stack could then fold HIS way into second. Hero pushed to try to win the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

With blinds at 200/400 Hero's got some wiggle room, he's got less than 20% of his stack in next hand (unless you're referring to the raise 2000 and fold to a push idea, which I hope was posted sarcastically since it's clearly insane). Moreover, he'll have shorty effectively all-in the hand after that, with basically a 50-50 chance of knocking him out (probably more, since big stack may take him out some of the time).

It's far from a great position, since shorty could just as easily double up and make it back into a battle for 2nd, but it's not quite bad enough to make pushing A7s correct against a villain who's known to make marginal calls.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2005, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

First of all, M can be applied to any tournament you play in regardless of the amount of players.

I think you come in for come in for 800 (the min) to 1000. Will the big stack be more willing to fold to a min. raise or a raise of 1000 ? If the SB calls you are happy to race him here when you are most likely the favorite. If the BB calls be prepared to follow through with a continuation bet. If your flop bet is called, give up the hand. You'll be about the same size as the SB now and have a chance to race your next hand. Now if you think the chip leader going to call your raise the majority of the time no matter what then your best shot is just to move in. If the blinds were at 100/200 and you felt very confident against the chip leader heads up then I would consider waiting.

Either way my reasoning for being fairly aggressive here has to do with the SNG prize structure. When you are down to the final 3 moving up and getting second will only earn you another 10%, but gambling for first could earn you an extra HUGE 30%. THIS is why I change gears late in the tournament with only 3 left. Generally, even if there is a short stacked player. Hope this helps.

Keith
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2005, 01:52 AM
chekraze chekraze is offline
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Default Re: $50+5: 3 left, A7s on button, M=3.6

i'd push it or raise a thoughtful amount ($1500 or so) so it looks like u really thought about what u are doing. u don't want that spite call.

re:M - harrington says when it's down to that few players u have to calculate the "Effective M" which would be 3/10 times your 3.6# u came up with. so about 1.2 is what it is. not as useful a stat here as compared to a full ring 10 player circumstance.
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