An old live hand

sfer · #1 10-26-2005, 10:54 AM

Playing live, 10 handed 10/20 with a couple of 2+2ers. bdk3clash raises UTG+1, three coldcalls, I call in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 5 players, 10.25 SBs.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I check, Brad bets, first coldcaller continues, 1 fold, the button--a loose and generally passive player--raises, I think for a second and call, Brad calls, coldcaller calls.

4 players, 9 BBs. Turn is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, Brad folds, coldcaller calls, button calls.

3 players, 12 BBs. River is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, coldcaller checks, button bets, I fold.

Paxosmotic · #2 10-26-2005, 10:58 AM

Trying to find something wrong with the hand but can't. How do you feel about a turn check/raise? A little of the ole semi-bluff in out action gov'na. Might get rid of cold caller if he has a stronger ace but not one he's particularly thrilled about, and might take down the pot enough to justify it.

jskills · #3 10-26-2005, 11:04 AM

Dumb question: What about folding the flop when it's 2 back to you. PF raiser could easily have a better A, but even if not, the raise from the loose passive has to indicate that at least one of them likely has a better A which has us drawing pretty thin, no?

If I'm off base here, can you explain your thoughts on calling the flop for 2?

Thx.

Nick Royale · #4 10-26-2005, 11:07 AM

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Trying to find something wrong with the hand but can't. How do you feel about a turn check/raise? A little of the ole semi-bluff in out action gov'na. Might get rid of cold caller if he has a stronger ace but not one he's particularly thrilled about, and might take down the pot enough to justify it.

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Button only bets hands that beats sfer on this turn. He's either on a fd or holds a better A, a set or maybe two pairs. Check/raising against this range of hands against loose passive would be really bad, since we're giving him a freecard when we're ahead and are behind if we get the opportunity to check/raise. The turn bet is to prevent a freecard.

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Trying to find something wrong with the hand but can't.

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It's funny how posters always praise the play of posters like sfer and cdc without knowing the reason behind. Not trying to be a jerk, I see it all the time.

krimson · #5 10-26-2005, 11:09 AM

I'm totally lost on this one. Can you explain your thinking?

The flop call of 2 cold can be rougly explained by the fact that we may have the best hand, and have 3 outs if behind (don't feel like counting the pot right now). However, I don't understand the bet into the turn, and then c/f on the river. Given your read on the button I think he's calling this donk bet with hands we have beat. ie: smaller aces (which would be why he had to think hard about raising it on the flop). So why do we just give it up for 1 more bet on the river?

Paxosmotic · #6 10-26-2005, 11:10 AM

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Trying to find something wrong with the hand but can't. How do you feel about a turn check/raise? A little of the ole semi-bluff in out action gov'na. Might get rid of cold caller if he has a stronger ace but not one he's particularly thrilled about, and might take down the pot enough to justify it.

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Button only bets hands that beats sfer on this turn. He's either on a fd or holds a better A, a set or maybe two pairs. Check/raising against this range of hands against loose passive would be really bad, since we're giving him a freecard when we're ahead and are behind if we get the opportunity to check/raise. The turn bet is to prevent a freecard.

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I know we're probably behind, but I wonder if the size of the pot along with our outs give us enough equity to check/raise. I think it's close either way.

jskills - We've got some backdoor outs to cover our odds on the flop call.

Nick Royale · #7 10-26-2005, 11:14 AM

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know we're probably behind, but I wonder if the size of the pot along with our outs give us enough equity to check/raise. I think it's close either way.

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The times we're not ahead we're drawing to 3 outs at most. I don't think it's close, he's loose and will probably call down with all hands that beats us and when he bets the turn he has us beat ~90% (I would probably estimate that it's even more than that).

Fishlips_Jones · #8 10-26-2005, 11:14 AM

Preflop, do you think the kicker is good? I am dubious as to it's value and assume I need to flop two pair (Ace and Eight) or a flush draw. I don't think you lose much by folding this preflop.

Fishlips

krimson · #9 10-26-2005, 11:22 AM

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Preflop, do you think the kicker is good? I am dubious as to it's value and assume I need to flop two pair (Ace and Eight) or a flush draw. I don't think you lose much by folding this preflop.

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This is an easy call pre-flop. Don't be so worried about domination.

Paxosmotic · #10 10-26-2005, 11:23 AM

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Preflop, do you think the kicker is good? I am dubious as to it's value and assume I need to flop two pair (Ace and Eight) or a flush draw. I don't think you lose much by folding this preflop.

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This is an easy call pre-flop. Don't be so worried about domination.

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Also remember that we're getting 9.25:1 out of the BB. Hell we don't even have to win this hand our share of the time to show a profit, just once in a while.