20-40 hand, lots of decisions yet i just check-call the whole way!

[mike l.]

good live 20-40 game. early position okay player raises, 3 people cold call, i call in the sb w/ K3c. bb calls. 6 of us.

the flop is 644 w/ two clubs. everyone checks to the second cold caller who plays bad. he bets, cutoff calls, i call, bb folds, preflop raiser calls, first cold caller calls. that's 5 of us.

the turn is an offsuit 3. checked to same guy who bets again, cutoff folds, i call, preflop raiser folds, other guy calls. 3 of us.

the river is another 4. checked to same guy who bets, i call.

comments?

[Jeffage]

I would checkraise the turn. You might be winning and you have outs if not. Plus, it's realistic your hand (out of the SB) could contain a 4.

Jeff

[DcifrThs]

ive learned to not take issue w/ your preflop play.

you have a high card w/ no kicker and a card that might win the pot if it pairs and this bettor is FOS on the flop. the pf raiser looks like he's willing to call 1 bet. and clearly he's correct to. why give him that chance? a K that comes off commits you to the showdown and a raise may (almost certainly WILL knock out a better K). you cut down your drawing odds but increase the probability of you winning if you pair one of your cards.

on the turn i think you played it right and same w/ river. for me, the crucial decision is on the flop.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I would checkraise the turn. You might be winning and you have outs if not. Plus, it's realistic your hand (out of the SB) could contain a 4.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

another place he could c'r. definately a good play since you likely fold out the caller who isn't the one who "plays bad"

what do you think of the c'r on the flop vs. turn?

-Barron

[Jeffage]

I don't really like checkraising the flop b/c I think multiway action on your draw is more valuable than clearing out a better king which may or may not be out there. You are most likely going to need to hit to win this. The turn changes things since now you might be leading and have the flush draw as backup. Plus you potentially get the good player off a better hand.

Jeff

[andyfox]

Playing K-3 out of position leads to situations where one has to check-call the whole way. You pair your kicker card and there's guaranteed to be overcards on board. You're rarely going to have a powerful enough hand to make any kind of move

That said, I don't like the idea of check-raising the turn. The bettor, by your desciption, plays bad. To me, that means he could have a 6 or a 4 and a semi-bluff raise won't have half it's value, namely, that it might win right there.

I suppose a flop check-raise has the advantages the other posters have pointed out. But then again you don't have anything yet and you're up against a bad player.

I'd have just folded it pre-flop and that would have ben that.

[Net Warrior]

You're getting 3.5-1 OoP Preflop. This should be an easy fold. What am I missing?

[Klepton]

i started getting cute to with j3s or defending with retarded hands like j6o and 96o, then i relized all i do is make many wrongs plays with them and they show me a better hand at shodown anyway.

but i know you dont care if someone tells you to fold preflop

[mike l.]

"But then again you don't have anything yet and you're up against a bad player."

after 40 years of hold em or whatever it's been you surely have learned that a four flush on the flop is quite a bit more than "you don't have anything yet" right??

"a semi-bluff raise"

youre thinking about this wrong. a checkraise on the flop or the turn wouldnt be a semibluff raise. it'd just be a raise. no better hands would ever fold and some worse hands would call. well wait that's not true, i might get a 6 or 55 out on the turn if i checkraise and face the whole field with two bets cold. but what i mean is the turn bettor will never ever fold a 6 or 55 or A3 or anything there.

anyway what happened was i made a weird loose call preflop that i think was wrong only by a little (if it's wrong at all) given how loose and passive these people play and then i made a decision to not try and get AK or any other stray king overcard out on the flop w/ a checkraise. then on the turn i also wussed out when i decided i still likely had strictly a draw and nothing more.

anyway what a game it would be if something like a turn c/r here would have the advantage of sometimes seeing the preflop bettor sometimes fold a 6 or something. it'd be a game im not familiar with, but it'd make for a more interesting game nonetheless.

[Lawrence Ng]

How I would play this flop:

Check-raise, knock out the PFR is he has AK as well as knocking out other potential gutshot chasers/overcards that might not call 2 small bets, but would definitely call 1 small bet thus increasing your chances to win if you miss a flush but still hit any pair with your 3 or king if the "bad" player is betting with donkey crap.

Depending on what happens after I c/r the flop (how many callers remain, who called and such) I would most likely lead into the turn with any card that falls.

River: I like the check-call thing unless I hit my flush.

Lawrence