Angle shooting while checking?

45suited · #1 07-15-2005, 05:56 PM

Usually play online, so this might be a stupid question:

A guy in the 5-10 game at the casino was doing this and someone complained. The poker room staff did not find a problem with this, but I am curious as to what everyone thinks. When this guy would act on his hand, he would always have chips in his hand. (Tapping the chips on the felt without releasing them from his hand). When he checked, he would use the hand with the chips, put his hand over the line, the chips would touch the felt, and he would pause and then say check. He did this while looking at the other players in the hand. He would bet the same way, except after his hand touched the felt (the same motion he made when checking) he would release the chips.

Like I said, the management let him keep doing this. It didn't affect me, but it did seem to be obvious angle shooting and I thought the guy was a total idiot. He was obviously trying to get a read on his competition when he was going to either bet or check. Is there a rule against this at most casinos?

MoneyFunnel · #2 07-15-2005, 06:02 PM

What card room were you playing at? Chips should not cross the bet line if they are not going in the pot.

45suited · #3 07-15-2005, 06:03 PM

Potawatomi in Milwaukee, WI

And not that it matters, but I got the stakes wrong. It was a 10-20 and the guy was a regular. Maybe that's why they put up with it? (Not that they should have.)

joshman1204 · #4 07-15-2005, 06:13 PM

Line or no line if he makes a forward move with chips he should be forced to bet or raise.

LoosenUp · #5 07-15-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Usually play online, so this might be a stupid question:

A guy in the 5-10 game at the casino was doing this and someone complained. The poker room staff did not find a problem with this, but I am curious as to what everyone thinks. When this guy would act on his hand, he would always have chips in his hand. (Tapping the chips on the felt without releasing them from his hand). When he checked, he would use the hand with the chips, put his hand over the line, the chips would touch the felt, and he would pause and then say check. He did this while looking at the other players in the hand. He would bet the same way, except after his hand touched the felt (the same motion he made when checking) he would release the chips.

Like I said, the management let him keep doing this. It didn't affect me, but it did seem to be obvious angle shooting and I thought the guy was a total idiot. He was obviously trying to get a read on his competition when he was going to either bet or check. Is there a rule against this at most casinos?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my cardroom, this is a bet and it would be enforced. he is angle shooting and I wanted him murdered! The betting line most times has nothing to do w/ a bet, it is there so people push thier bets and mucked cards far enough out so the dealer can reach them. If the handled chips are brought passed his cards and then are brought down to the felt this is a bet.

prepare the guillotine we gots an angle shooter to excute!

Tapin · #6 07-15-2005, 06:36 PM

I've noticed this a bunch with some of the worse regulars at Artichoke Joe's in northern CA. Last session I played with a guy (playing 6/12) who must've been about 80% VPIP / 20% PFR / 0.75 AF who did this (or something very close to it) constantly -- his move was to pick up a stack of chips (if he didn't have them in his hand already), raise it about eight inches above the felt, look straight at whomever he deemed to be the biggest threat in the hand, and then as he was lowering his hand he'd say "check" if he was deciding against betting (which, postflop, was pretty much every time). Of course, since his dropping hand was aimed out in front of him, the motion for betting & checking was exactly the same.

Pretty quickly, the aware players at the table (both of us) just put our hands on our chips every time he started the act, so he presumably read us for strength and checked. And then decided he couldn't trust his read and called us down if we did indeed bet.

It was pretty comical. Profitable, though.

Yeknom58 · #7 07-15-2005, 07:16 PM

Why have a line if this stuff is allowed? In most rooms there is a forward motion rule or a betting line. The forward motion rule can get a little messy but the line is pretty straight forward. I guess your cardroom doesn't have a forward motion rule when holding chips and the line is just for show.

If he's pretty consistent with this action I imagine it's pretty easily exploitable to your favor.

Chimp · #8 07-15-2005, 08:12 PM

How about this: you take a stack, go out past the bet line and drop only some of the chips from the bottom of the stack and take the rest of the stack back. Should you be required to bet the whole stack?

45suited · #9 07-15-2005, 09:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he's pretty consistent with this action I imagine it's pretty easily exploitable to your favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I wasn't the one complaining about it, although I silently agreed with the person who did. It was more just a matter of the guy being a jerk, but I didn't understand why the poker room allowed it.

Al_Capone_Junior · #10 07-16-2005, 01:42 AM

If there is a betting line, in most casinos, this is a BET. It's certainly very poor ettiquette at the least. In casinos without a betting line, it's usually such a grey area that it's ignored by virtually all dealers, floors, and players.

al