OESFD on paired board

bizaff · #1 12-11-2005, 04:10 PM

Villain is 20/6/2.7 over 200 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

Hero ($148.85)
UTG+1 ($157.05)
MP1 ($37.25)
MP2 ($139.75)
MP3 ($41.35)
CO ($92)
Button ($233.80)
SB ($228.10)
BB ($65.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP2 calls $4, 5 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7, MP2 raises to $14, Hero debates how much to reraise.

bizaff · #2 12-12-2005, 02:03 PM

bump

GrunchCan · #3 12-12-2005, 02:10 PM

If you're going to re-raiise, it needs to be all-in. I'd just call, however.

scrapperdog · #4 12-12-2005, 02:10 PM

Is there anything wrong with seeing what the turn brings before you start putting tons of chips in here?

Godfather80 · #5 12-12-2005, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 20/6/2.7 over 200 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

Hero ($148.85)
UTG+1 ($157.05)
MP1 ($37.25)
MP2 ($139.75)
MP3 ($41.35)
CO ($92)
Button ($233.80)
SB ($228.10)
BB ($65.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP2 calls $4, 5 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7, MP2 raises to $14, Hero debates how much to reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call and lead the turn, but I'd love to see some arguments for raising. I'm having trouble seeing what Villain is raising with that we want to play a huge pot against. We are getting a great price for our draw on the turn, but we are OOP so a raise from us will not get us a free card. Thoughts?

GrunchCan · #6 12-12-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to see some arguments for raising

[/ QUOTE ]

Two arguments for raising:
- Hero has an ewuity edge
- Hero's semibluff may push opponent off a better hand

There are problems with these arguments, however. First, if 5the opponent has 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], we don't have an equity edge.

Second, many better hands won't fold, such as trips.

EMcWilliams · #7 12-12-2005, 02:50 PM

Hero should probably just call and see how the turn develops. Even if you make your hand it might be NG, so remember that.

GHL · #8 12-12-2005, 03:06 PM

Anyone have a problem with raising 4 BBs UTG with a drawing hand that plays best with a few more players and some more dead money in the pot? Why would you want to play a hand like TJ suited OOP most likely HU?

It is hard to say what he holds at this point... a MP player cold called a UTG raise... you should be holding a quality show down type hand calling raises from UTG in that spot given there are a lot of players behind to act... I would doubt he has a set.... Against an over pair you're only 48/52.. and against something like A8 you're around 59/41.... I don't see a whole lot of overpairs at this limit folding.... and no way an 8 folds at this limit ever... so I would think calling here is best and pushing a good turn card...

what if a brick falls on the turn and you didn't push on the flop?

djoyce003 · #9 12-12-2005, 03:18 PM

Hero has to play carefully even if he makes his hand. He could be up against the boat, and if a 7 falls making hero's straight he could still be behind a boat because 87 is a likely hand for villain to have if he has an 8. I don't think pushing is a great idea even if hero hits his hand because I think it folds out what we beat and doesn't fold out what beats us.

#10 12-12-2005, 03:25 PM

Q or 7 Hearts gives you straight flush. You'll stack him if he's got the full house. However, 2 of 46 outs are not good odds. The other Q, and 7 are often crying hands, particularly Q where AK kills you.
Mean while, you have nayda. Nutttin. Zip. Ever hear of restraint. With probable trips on board you won't bluff him off this pot. Call.